tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post1128400059016012349..comments2024-03-29T06:45:45.894+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Modelling energy intake: CanagliflozinPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger26125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-76819299046782540942021-09-19T00:27:51.386+00:002021-09-19T00:27:51.386+00:00Thanks JR. That Tucker post's where I gleaned ...Thanks JR. That Tucker post's where I gleaned the info in my earlier comment.<br /><br />Passthecream, in the straw bale house I'm building the floors are poured adobe (sand plus clay plus straw). After drying, the adobe is saturated with many coats of boiled* linseed oil. Over a period of months it polymerizes into something resembling linoleum, which is, I believe, where LINoleum originally came from. So it's good for more than just varnish — it makes great floors!<br /><br /><br />* They don't actually boil it anymore but treat it with some combination of chemicals that has the same effect.cavenewthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461541719892430585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-14584988723643060362021-09-18T23:03:24.650+00:002021-09-18T23:03:24.650+00:00Thanks JR!
LA_bob, the early mechanical pressing ...Thanks JR!<br /><br />LA_bob, the early mechanical pressing methods were not efficient and left a lot of oil in the seed cake. LSO is up to 60% triply unsaturated ALA and 20% la which is quite respectable, plus some mono OA. After reading G. Spitteller's conclusions I don't trust any of the multiply unsaturated fatty acids. From my point of view as an amateur varnish maker ALA is the best thing since sliced bread. It is much more potent as a drying oil than linoleic acid.<br />Passthecreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01214860448492630477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-44442534453652028192021-09-18T12:26:54.755+00:002021-09-18T12:26:54.755+00:00http://yelling-stop.blogspot.com/2019/03/response-...http://yelling-stop.blogspot.com/2019/03/response-to-gary-taubes-on-omega-6-fats.html<br /><br />Hi Pass, link you were looking for. O-6 were present earlier than we realize. Knobbe has also been investigating the history of o-6 use, coincidencing with his speciality maculatory decease. <br /><br />It would be high time for taubes to get interested in seed oils...<br />JRJRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02148226652168202514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-48656175554746613822021-09-18T05:16:29.654+00:002021-09-18T05:16:29.654+00:00Hi, Pass,
Just to be clear, cave and I were talki...Hi, Pass,<br /><br />Just to be clear, cave and I were talking about omega-6 fatty acids (linoleate) finding their way into our diets in quantities beyond our ancestral exposure. I'm not sure omega-3 laden linseed meal fits that category.<br /><br />Also, I'm not sure it's exactly fair to consider linseed meal fed to the animals in the same way cottonseed oil was added directly to our own diets. Or cooking oil and margarine today.<br /><br />My point, and cave seems to agree, is that Gary Taubes doesn't need linoleic acid to explain "bad calories". History shows refined and highly digestible carbs work just fine. <br /><br />Interesting to wonder, though, if the linseed meal has any adverse consequences to us beyond allowing producers to claim they're selling a better o-6 / o-3 ratio.LA_Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09775262019154051166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-21109365231249737702021-09-17T22:35:06.255+00:002021-09-17T22:35:06.255+00:00LA_Bob, Cavenewt,
Tucker Goodrich wrote a good pi...LA_Bob, Cavenewt,<br /><br />Tucker Goodrich wrote a good piece about the history of lard vs cottonseed oil but I can't track down the link atm.<br /><br /><br />This is an interesting collection of writings ( propaganda + history) about flax seed that I stumbled on a while ago. Flax seed and meal has been a part of the animal feed chain for a long time so pufa have been finding their way into the human food supply ditto.<br /><br />https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/agnic/flax/utilization.htm<br /><br />eg<br /><br />https://www.ag.ndsu.edu/agnic/flax/Eastman/ch%205.pdf<br /><br /><br />(Interesting btw to read in the Eastman chapter how vast quantities of the oil were shipped to the Soviets as food during/after WW2. That could explain a few things.)<br /><br /><br />So it's not just cottonseed which was an ' adulterant' in the 19C and that probably wasn't even thought of as such merely cheap calories. Aside from the gossypol problem. Not to be confused with the glossy coats due to fkaxmeal.Passthecreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01214860448492630477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-40315677764398432922021-09-17T06:44:46.035+00:002021-09-17T06:44:46.035+00:00LA_Bob—you're right, and I'm sure they'...LA_Bob—you're right, and I'm sure they're both big factors. "Turbocharge" is exactly the impression I have, it's like throwing gasoline on a fire.<br /><br /> You're probably aware that lard started being adulterated with cottonseed oil (although to what extent I can't remember) in the 1860s. Native Americans stuck on their new reservations were given flour, lard, coffee, and sugar, and not much else to eat.<br /><br />A lot of us here have become fixated on seed oils, and since we've been told to switch to PUFAs for decades now the effect will certainly be not insignificant. I just wistfully hope that Gary will eventually get around to it with his usual reasonable thoroughness.cavenewthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461541719892430585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-16902779318836662682021-09-16T21:30:37.248+00:002021-09-16T21:30:37.248+00:00I can understand Taubes's "seed-oil hesit...I can understand Taubes's "seed-oil hesitancy". He wrote about diet-induced corpulence and disease from carbohydrate during a time in history before seed oils were important. Think Western diets and the natives in African and Asian colonies in the late 19th and early 20th centuries. I'm sure linoleic acid played very little role then, but the natives who ate the refined carbs of the colonists gradually developed European disease profiles.<br /><br />So, if Taubes (and my reading of Taubes) is right, what do seed oils do if not cause obesity? Turbocharge it? <br /><br />And, yes, I realize that's separate from their peroxidation, carcinogenic, and ARDS problems.<br />LA_Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09775262019154051166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-21984563553240264402021-09-14T23:03:14.795+00:002021-09-14T23:03:14.795+00:00Cavenewt that was Raphi with the paradoxes. Person...Cavenewt that was Raphi with the paradoxes. Personally, I mostly have confusion. <br /><br />:)Passthecreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01214860448492630477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-3203117846990650372021-09-14T15:47:53.356+00:002021-09-14T15:47:53.356+00:00@Passthecream—Apropos of not much, "...forced...@Passthecream—Apropos of not much, "...forced (some) low-carbers to face their paradoxes". Things only seem paradoxical in light of one's preconceptions. Many (most?) of these paradoxes have to do with the metabolism dealing with extremes, at least some of which are evolutionarily novel.<br /><br />In the context of Peter's next post, "Modelling energy intake (2): Corn oil", conducting in vitro or in vivo experiments that involve extremes can be academically enlightening but not necessarily applicable to normal life. That 1973 study is a great example. Superficially, the average person would think olive oil is fattening and corn oil will make them lose weight. (I have trouble imagining chugging 20 ounces of corn oil a day without feeling nauseated.)cavenewthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461541719892430585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-50381555719290475382021-09-14T14:45:13.052+00:002021-09-14T14:45:13.052+00:00Pass,
Carbosis was clever and it forced (some) lo...Pass,<br /><br />Carbosis was clever and it forced (some) low-carbers to face their paradoxes. I have no idea what she's up to.raphihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992252569979714724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-36733646345030521302021-09-14T14:42:22.829+00:002021-09-14T14:42:22.829+00:00I always have at the back of my mind the carbosis ...I always have at the back of my mind the carbosis essay of Denise Minger wherein she referenced Walter Kempner's therapeutic diet of white rice flavoured with sugar and the occasional fruit juice for light relief, which seems to have worked for many people. They lost weight, got better. There were some other extreme diets she wrote about then, just before Peter wrote Protons (38). Peter also spoke/wrote recently about the possibility of a predominantly carb based diet --- assuming you have a functional set of beta cells etc.<br /><br />DM doesn't seem to have written much publicly since then, not on her blog anyway. Was there a hate storm from the Ketone Cops? I'm still waiting for part 2 of that essay ... Passthecreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01214860448492630477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-74996415120824720472021-09-14T13:44:25.377+00:002021-09-14T13:44:25.377+00:00Peter,
Here's Gabor's report https://u.pc...Peter,<br /><br />Here's Gabor's report https://u.pcloud.link/publink/show?code=XZA0apXZtMESLeKKvCzNlKTgV1fh8ytCuTKy&fbclid=IwAR2Zztaczyu0QOrNpxMBEHch_LKHyXmSE2bq6I1PwXyxZ8K8eZkNA6TynkQ "Physiology and limitations of fructose absorption: considerations for sweetener formulations in beverages"<br /><br />Cavenewt,<br /><br />He hasn't spoken about LA publicly at length, so who knows really.. maybe one of us can get the question posed to him in an upcoming podcast!raphihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992252569979714724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-14696258721616086302021-09-14T13:25:16.287+00:002021-09-14T13:25:16.287+00:00raphi—I remember him mentioning it twice, and you&...raphi—I remember him mentioning it twice, and you've summed it up pretty much as I remember. Perhaps "not a problem" is putting words in his mouth.cavenewthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461541719892430585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-89878692634353439242021-09-14T10:28:19.370+00:002021-09-14T10:28:19.370+00:00cave and raphi,
I've yet to get the time to r...cave and raphi,<br /><br />I've yet to get the time to read either article so no comment as yet beyond that I really, really struggle with fructose.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-14579654980861885842021-09-14T09:18:32.056+00:002021-09-14T09:18:32.056+00:00Cavenewt,
I wouldn't go so far as to say Gary...Cavenewt,<br /><br />I wouldn't go so far as to say Gary thinks seed oils aren't a problem<br /><br />https://twitter.com/garytaubes/status/1395160568944754690?s=20 "Refined grains and fructose-rich sugars would be my guess. Some add vegetable oils. Some argue it's glycemic index effect. I think the sugars/sugary beverages dominate"<br /><br />'Dominate' being the operative word.<br /><br />He's also mentioned elsewhere (can't find the tweet unfortunately) saying that he's uncomfortable with the level of certainty regarding the obesogenic effects of seed oils displayed by people like Paul Saladino. I've never heard him directly say it's a bad hypothesis or that there's 'no evidence'. I think he's simply being cautious and knows the carbs angle way better.<br /><br />totally fine as far as I'm concerned..raphihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992252569979714724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-54812426798023641952021-09-13T23:28:46.259+00:002021-09-13T23:28:46.259+00:00In one of my comments on the STAT News article I d...In one of my comments on the STAT News article I did express my disappointment that Gary does not seem to have had time to look into polyunsaturated fats yet. I heard him say so in an interview once, and later, he's said he doesn't think there a problem, IIRC.<br /><br />It isn't all one or the other; a lot of us who went low-carb years ago, but didn't bother to avoid seed oils, still saw vast improvement, so I still think Gary's message would be very helpful for the majority of the population that is subsisting on Twinkies and Coke.cavenewthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461541719892430585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-84172073968771257002021-09-13T22:58:51.908+00:002021-09-13T22:58:51.908+00:00Thanks for the links Cavenewt, that's an inter...Thanks for the links Cavenewt, that's an interesting essay in the hyperphagian mode. But it neatly completely sidesteps the question of " heart healthy " polyunsatured fatty acids so it could risk being lumped in with the other dogmatic thinking he argues against!<br /><br />I'll read the paper though, maybe I'll have to eat my words. Fingers crossed that they aren't fattening. <br /><br />C.Passthecreamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01214860448492630477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-83375517251887335482021-09-13T18:29:09.146+00:002021-09-13T18:29:09.146+00:00One of the daily newsletters I get is STAT News, a...One of the daily newsletters I get is STAT News, a pretty mainstream pharma-centric source. So this morning I was interested to see a guest article by Gary Taubes announcing a new review article in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition,in which he's a co-author.<br /><br />"How a ‘fatally, tragically flawed’ paradigm has derailed the science of obesity"<br />https://www.statnews.com/2021/09/13/how-a-fatally-tragically-flawed-paradigm-has-derailed-the-science-of-obesity/<br /><br />The review article has 16 co-authors, with some familiar names including Ludwig and Volek…and, surprisingly (to me at least), Walter Willett.<br /><br />"The carbohydrate-insulin model: a physiological perspective on the obesity pandemic"<br />https://doi.org/10.1093/ajcn/nqab270<br />cavenewthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08461541719892430585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-67247041222346531442021-09-10T12:57:56.297+00:002021-09-10T12:57:56.297+00:00Peter,
Right! His choice of topics and papers are...Peter,<br /><br />Right! His choice of topics and papers are good enough to make me want to keep up with him every once in a while, despite the insight-free analysis he provides.raphihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992252569979714724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-77769265277273231042021-09-09T04:36:02.009+00:002021-09-09T04:36:02.009+00:00raphi,
You have to feel for The Good Doctor. He r...raphi,<br /><br />You have to feel for The Good Doctor. He really lacks a framework to understand anything. Yet some of my most important insights stem from him, he introduced me to the concept that insulin resistance might be a physiological adaptive mechanism. I've no idea what he thinks nowadays...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-70201466013257794352021-09-09T04:31:34.847+00:002021-09-09T04:31:34.847+00:00Hi Unknown and Bob,
It seems quite respectable to...Hi Unknown and Bob,<br /><br />It seems quite respectable to look at what dropping 90d/g of glucose out of the metabolic milieux does. Whether via insulin, glucose levels of the PUFA enhancing effects of the previous two, taking out glucose seems to work. People can pick at the details of metabolism under canagliflozin without admitting they are studying LC...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-69414619792911020932021-09-08T16:59:59.266+00:002021-09-08T16:59:59.266+00:00@bobminty
Stephan Guyenet captures what the mains...@bobminty<br /><br />Stephan Guyenet captures what the mainstream of obesity research thinks of insulin:<br /><br />"[...] insulin does impact body fatness, even if only modestly. It is consistent with a model whereby multiple factors, including post-meal insulin release, determine body fatness" https://www.stephanguyenet.com/interesting-new-genetic-study-on-insulin-secretion-and-body-mass/raphihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992252569979714724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-41796753136378162072021-09-08T09:13:26.536+00:002021-09-08T09:13:26.536+00:00"Effect of canagliflozin on N-terminal pro-br..."Effect of canagliflozin on N-terminal pro-brain natriuretic peptide in patients with type 2 diabetes and chronic heart failure according to baseline use of glucose-lowering agents"<br /><br />https://cardiab.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12933-021-01369-5Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18277643612639604293noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-44490869275687448172021-09-07T22:53:35.887+00:002021-09-07T22:53:35.887+00:00Peter: Very keen observation, the obvious neglect ...Peter: Very keen observation, the obvious neglect of serum insulin by mainstream researchers. <br />I was able to find a single study that accidentally measured insulin as it was tracking SGLT2 inhibition association with NLRP3 inflamazone. <br />As you would expect there was a measurable reduction in endogenous insulin production, and also increased BHB levels.<br />Good work.<br /><br /><br />https://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/67/Supplement_1/164-OR.abstractBob Mintyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10965028115539974926noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-63586370925878890882021-09-07T08:17:11.050+00:002021-09-07T08:17:11.050+00:00Fungal necrotising fasciitis sounds really fun. No...Fungal necrotising fasciitis sounds really fun. Not.<br /><br />But obviously preferable to skipping 90g/d of carbs from your diet of course...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.com