tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post8137461976305313038..comments2024-03-27T22:57:00.742+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Skirting around leptinPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger105125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-39675398602533848892012-11-17T10:27:40.002+00:002012-11-17T10:27:40.002+00:00Please would you give my best wishes to your wife ...Please would you give my best wishes to your wife and tell her how delighted I am she doesn't have end-stage liver disease.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-44090745923193664572012-11-13T20:56:21.827+00:002012-11-13T20:56:21.827+00:00Oh, and I really must stop calling Fe and Cu heavy...Oh, and I really must stop calling Fe and Cu heavy metals. Duh.<br /><br />Peter Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-76571818469258558112012-11-12T10:43:53.082+00:002012-11-12T10:43:53.082+00:00Oh! What a relief. Of course, I should have real...Oh! What a relief. Of course, I should have realised. I KNEW your wife was a pathologist. And I knew she had said things about copper accumulation in cirrhotic liver.<br /><br />Anyway, let's talk about this again when you've done the posts you're thinking about. They sound very interesting and I don't want to distract you.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-64605881539380067612012-11-11T20:55:30.048+00:002012-11-11T20:55:30.048+00:00Jane, sorry sorry sorry!!! My wife IS the patholog...Jane, sorry sorry sorry!!! My wife IS the pathologist! She has the joy of trying to tell clinicians whether the copper accumulation in a given canine liver biopsy is indicative of a primary copper storage disease or is the common finding of copper rather than iron accumulation in cirrhosis. Not sure if the dog (my wife is a veterinary pathologist) had iron overload as well as copper overload.<br /><br />Again, sorry for the crossed purposes. I forget how little day to day stuff gets on to the blog!<br /><br />Needless to say I have a lot of interest in liver pathology.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-34614548928000906232012-11-11T14:17:31.414+00:002012-11-11T14:17:31.414+00:00Peter, yes of course. I do hope I'm being mor...Peter, yes of course. I do hope I'm being more of a help than a hindrance. I'm shocked to hear about your wife.Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-76362833311062548042012-11-10T20:10:04.857+00:002012-11-10T20:10:04.857+00:00Jane, I have a great deal of reading to do on this...Jane, I have a great deal of reading to do on this subject but want to get the last 2 posts on beta cells and omega 6 obese mice out of the way before letting myself wander off in to hepatic insulin resistance and iron. My wife has just had another end stage liver disease biopsy with special-stain confirmed copper overload which she feels (for reasons best konwn to the pathologist who has looked at the sections) to be secondary copper overload rather than primary Wilson's Disease.<br /><br />There is a lot to heavy metals in the liver which the mainstream does not address well, I'd like to get time to think about it.<br /><br />Peter<br /><br />BTW, Gadfly, while I agree with your comment whole heartedly please don't encourage poor folks like Christopher to continue to make fools of themslves by responding. They're hopeless, ie there is no hope for them. Best not waste your time!Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-32274232377083488102012-11-10T09:14:16.081+00:002012-11-10T09:14:16.081+00:00@ Christopher - You mean she "exposed" t...@ Christopher - You mean she "exposed" that Jimmy is still fat after lots of different diets? That's about all she's ever really pointed out about him. As for Taubes, if her exposure of him to her relatively tiny audience meant anything, I'm not seeing the signs. She barks and the caravan passes. Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18270799853452520827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-20693853009081152542012-11-09T16:51:43.690+00:002012-11-09T16:51:43.690+00:00Ahem. It's saturated fat that promotes iron a...Ahem. It's saturated fat that promotes iron absorption, not PUFA. It also inhibits manganese absorption.<br /><br />'Manganese absorption and retention in rats is affected by the type of dietary fat'<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11697763<br />'..There is evidence that manganese (Mn) metabolism may be altered by the form and amount of dietary fat. Also, iron (Fe) absorption is greater with saturated fats, as compared to polyunsaturated fatty acids (PUFAs). The absorption of Fe and Mn are interrelated in many aspects; therefore, the form of dietary fat may indirectly alter Mn absorption. ..'<br /><br />I know, it's rotten. I eat lots of saturated fat. It also inhibits copper absorption.<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8618945Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-41546939042967641942012-11-09T06:15:46.735+00:002012-11-09T06:15:46.735+00:00Jane, don't forget the severe anthracosis of t...Jane, don't forget the severe anthracosis of the lungs and very high PUFA content of the diet. I am still very interested in PUFA and iron absorption.<br /><br />I'm assuming you are looking at Zimmermean's 1993 paper. It worries me a little that the arteriosclerosis diagnosis is supported by a pair of b/w H&E stained photomicrographs which I have much trouble interpreting. Certainly modern human neonates show arteriosclerosis which can be demonstrated far more clearly, and this is much more obvious if you stain with PAS rather than H&E.<br /><br />But interesting never the less and on file for further thinking.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-46038952742336103352012-11-08T12:25:48.423+00:002012-11-08T12:25:48.423+00:00Yes! They probably made beer from it and drank th...Yes! They probably made beer from it and drank themselves to death.<br /><br />I wondered that too. I can't imagine she knows meat is very low in manganese, or would think it mattered if she did. <br /><br />I suppose she might know about the atherosclerosis and osteoporosis in ancient Inuit mummies. I've only just found out about this, I thought they were very healthy. I did wonder how they avoided iron overload, and it now appears to me that they didn't. Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-15316407753757187672012-11-07T21:58:40.306+00:002012-11-07T21:58:40.306+00:00Jane,
Without any wish to add anything to what Ne...Jane,<br /><br />Without any wish to add anything to what Neanderthals ate (not something I've read much about), that article amused me a little when I read it some time ago. The Neanderthals are extinct. There may be many reasons. Maybe eating barley was one! <br /><br />Well, the idea made me giggle anyway.<br /><br />The article also left me wondering what dietary deficiencies come from eating meat??? Amanda Henry, file under idiot.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-51817644082618425962012-11-07T12:27:17.712+00:002012-11-07T12:27:17.712+00:00Hi john
Lessee now. Well Stephan has discussed re...Hi john<br />Lessee now. Well Stephan has discussed recent evidence that we are descended from middle eastern agriculturalists as well as from northern hunter gatherers. <br />http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co.uk/2012_04_01_archive.html<br /> <br />Then there's this paper from 2005.<br />'Mousterian vegetal food in Kebara Cave, Mt. Carmel'<br />http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0305440304001694<br />'...Plant remains are rarely found in Paleolithic excavations. The prevailing site formation process in most caves and open-air sites did not encourage the preservation of these kinds of organics. ... the large Mousterian carbonized plant assemblage retrieved during the excavations at Kebara cave fills a major gap in our knowledge of Middle Paleolithic gathering... It also provides critical missing information about subsistence strategies that often are reconstructed solely on the basis of animal bones. ...'<br /><br />They found ~4,000 seeds of which ~80% were legumes. '..we assume that the main source of energy in the diet of the Kebara inhabitants was the legumes, as their seeds form the vast majority of plant remains found in the cave.'<br /><br />See also 'Starch grains found on Neandertal teeth debunks theory that dietary deficiencies caused their extinction'.<br />http://smithsonianscience.org/2011/01/starch-grains-found-on-neandertal-teeth-helps-debunk-theory-their-extinction-was-caused-by-dietary-deficiencies/<br /><br />Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-1202671402240382692012-11-07T09:10:46.075+00:002012-11-07T09:10:46.075+00:00Here is an excellent detailed account of what the ...Here is an excellent detailed account of what the most unspoiled and traditional hunter-gatherers of today, the Andaman Islanders, eat:<br />http://www.andaman.org/BOOK/chapter15/text15.htm<br /><br />The amount of fatty meat consumed daily during the rainy season when pork was at its fattest was large and could on occasions rise to the truly gargantuan. People with an average adult body weight of around 40 kg (88 lb.) could, on occasion, eat up to 1.8 kg (4 lb.) of food. This could rise to a staggering 4.5 kg (10 lb.) during a 24-hour period on special occasions. At major feasts , during colossal honey-and-pork orgies, participants stuffed themselves to bursting point, leaving everyone barely able to walk and with severe indigestion for days. Such "food pig-outs" are known from many primitive societies that are precariously dependent on an insecure food supply. <br />Eggs of all kinds, but especially turtle eggs, were a favourite treat. Turtle eggs were searched out so avidly by man and beast alike that one observer thought no clutch laid on Little Andaman could possibly have a chance of surviving. The Onge even took to visiting the small islands between Little and Great Andaman such as the Brothers, Sisters and Cinque islands as well as South Sentinel and Passage island. Even if this improved their chances to find such eggs, it remained a rare and special treat. The Andamanese regarded any eggs as edible at any stage of development; if an embryo was already developing it was regarded as delicious. Undeveloped eggs were boiled and the yellow eaten (the white of turtle eggs does not congeal however long it is boiled) but sometimes entire eggs were eaten raw.<br /><br />Mussels, collected by women were so low on the ranking of food animals that their very mention was enough to bring up thoughts of famine and hunger. The Andamanese only touched them when there really was nothing else to eat. Something like that also seems to have happened to birds, snakes, frogs, rats and monitor lizards, all of which were eaten only during times of famine.<br /><br />There were considerable differences between the groups: the Jarawa occasionally eat monitor lizard while the Onge never do; the Great Andamanese accepted eel as food while the Onge do not. Birds, despite their abundance, are very rarely eaten by any group, probably for religious reasons.<br /><br />A diet rich in animal fats together with the occasional over-indulgence cried out for a counter-balance in the form of starchy roots, vegetables and fruit. These were available throughout the year but most abundant during the dry season. Gathering the unglamorous but necessary supplements was left to the women. If an all-male hunting party, especially an unsuccessful one, happened to come across such items, they might stoop to gather and bring them home.<br /><br />Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-15053244854841880212012-11-06T22:00:59.919+00:002012-11-06T22:00:59.919+00:00CarbSane exposed Jimmy Moore and Gary Taubes - amo...CarbSane exposed Jimmy Moore and Gary Taubes - among others. For that alone she's done yeoman work in the field.Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05883662741942050353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-2763762250125535442012-11-06T18:52:58.846+00:002012-11-06T18:52:58.846+00:00Jane,
Where is the recent evidence that "pal...Jane,<br /><br />Where is the recent evidence that "paleos" ate more carbs? Would you please post or send to me? Where were they living? Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05161850700121191487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-2616421337021378042012-11-06T09:29:23.833+00:002012-11-06T09:29:23.833+00:00@Christopher
And here I thought Carbsane was busy...@Christopher<br /><br />And here I thought Carbsane was busy mocking other fat people for being fat.Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18270799853452520827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-80893265593460298962012-11-06T08:23:27.403+00:002012-11-06T08:23:27.403+00:00Leon, you are quite right I do NOT want to hear an...Leon, you are quite right I do NOT want to hear anyone say how I should be eating leaves, bark, dirt, pith and baby humans as part of my diet. Do I REALLY need to explain why?!?!! LMAO! Seems like productivity of this conversation continues to degrade.<br /><br />Actually, I also do not want to ever hear another political robo call nor another blue jay screeching on my window at the crack of dawn nor any other irritating thing either. Not wanting to hear something is a far cry from actually demanding it never happen again with any reasonable expectation or enforcement of it happening. One thing is not the other. <br />-EvaEvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18224463305848437035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-15564060980577690462012-11-06T07:52:23.527+00:002012-11-06T07:52:23.527+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05161850700121191487noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-83788365158040370842012-11-06T04:36:43.409+00:002012-11-06T04:36:43.409+00:00I do want to hear more about blog blog eating ficu...I do want to hear more about blog blog eating ficus leaves and bark.<br />In fact, I want to watch it on YouTube.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-36943747474193311382012-11-06T03:45:36.812+00:002012-11-06T03:45:36.812+00:00Didn't CarbSane debunk most of this already??Didn't CarbSane debunk most of this already??Christopherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05883662741942050353noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-55429161791764153902012-11-05T11:44:02.557+00:002012-11-05T11:44:02.557+00:00@Eva
'..I still don't quite get where you ...@Eva<br />'..I still don't quite get where you are sure I don't have Mg deficiency..'<br /><br />Hmmmmmm. I actually said it sounds as if you DO have Mg deficiency.<br /><br />Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-52706233347488770492012-11-05T08:59:10.176+00:002012-11-05T08:59:10.176+00:00Eva
"I don't want to hear anyone saying ...Eva<br /><br />"I don't want to hear anyone saying that chimps are an eating role model until there is some evidence that we can digest large handfuls of ficus leaves and bark without getting sick."<br /><br />You do not want to HEAR?<br /><br />What? <br /><br />Others have to keep quiet, or not write! <br /><br />You jest.<br /><br />Surely you mean you do not want to LISTEN. <br /><br />In which case just put your hands over your ears.<br /><br />SlainteLeonRoverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01484097018449402128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-21804766114480292102012-11-04T23:50:11.978+00:002012-11-04T23:50:11.978+00:00If you want to eat like a chimp, better brace your...If you want to eat like a chimp, better brace yourself. During the season when fruit is scarce, plan to eat dirt, toxic (to humans) leaves like ficus, bark, pith, and baby chimps (I guess for humans that would mean you would be eating baby humans) Chimps like meat but they are limited to how much they can successfully hunt and they are not as good at hunting as we are with our big fat sneaky brains. Maybe taste for meat is why they sometimes resort to cannibalism. And when they kill, they eat all consummable parts of the animal. <br /><br />YOu want to eat like a chimp? Try it and you will be lucky to stay alive long. Chimps can digest food that we cannot because their system is designed for a more plant based diet than humans. I don't want to hear anyone saying that chimps are an eating role model until there is some evidence that we can digest large handfuls of ficus leaves and bark without getting sick..Evahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18224463305848437035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-68870932516487535012012-11-04T22:23:09.891+00:002012-11-04T22:23:09.891+00:00@blogblog: What "facts" do I need to get...@blogblog: What "facts" do I need to get straight, exactly? Gorillas have hind guts. That's a fact. I also didn't say "giant", so perhaps you need to do the fact checking. <br /><br />Similarly, your foray into panda physiology is comical because it simply demonstrates that similarities (or even identity) of gut construction doesn't dictate optimal diet. <br /><br />Lots of "facts" in your reposte; very few of them relevant. Your position that chimps and bonobos have anything to do with human dietary needs is an invalid inference. Gadflyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18270799853452520827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-57554612689024687102012-11-04T22:09:02.467+00:002012-11-04T22:09:02.467+00:00@ blog blog, pandas have been observed to eat she...@ blog blog, pandas have been observed to eat sheep, goats and cows.<br />http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-16365392<br /><br />Obviously the evolutionary record favours eating insects. That is man's true diet and Bear Grylls is our new guru.<br /><br />If Bonobos eat bananas and have no hangups, and humans eat meat and have hangups and ipods, that just goes to show how far evolution can carry two related species from an ancient LCA.<br />We have closer ancestors we didn't share with the Bonobo. They wiped out the mammoth and the moa.<br /><br />Pandas - not doing too well lately. Probably not a great role model for evlotionary success.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.com