tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post1031850344543468272..comments2024-03-29T06:45:45.894+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Dodgy D'AnciPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-64527404210856635882009-07-16T10:44:33.076+00:002009-07-16T10:44:33.076+00:00I simply can't see any valid reason why anyone...I simply can't see any valid reason why anyone needs <i>any</i> carbohydrates: <br /><br />- the brain functions as well or better on ketones than glucose.<br /> <br />- glucose is readily synthesised from protein by gluconeogenesis.<br /><br />- the muscles contain about 100g of glycogen and the liver another 400g. This is 2000 KCal of energy.<br /><br />When I was 20 I undertook a military survival exercise. I had <i>zero</i> food for three days. Apart from hunger there were absolutely no side effects at all from starvation.Brishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05771534538377496202noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-28017638175284667272008-12-20T03:32:00.000+00:002008-12-20T03:32:00.000+00:00I know even small bits of carb make a tremendous d...I know even small bits of carb make a tremendous difference in how I feel, so I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that a slight bit of extra carb helped. A NO carb diet is absolutely unnatural. Even if we are talking about innuit eating nothing but animals, it's assumed they're eating carb-containing liver and innards, right? <BR/>I would not expect humans to ideally thrive on zero carbs.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Good catch re: age and diet preference. As a 20 something I can tell you that low carb is supremely uncool. Older people are attracted to low carb, they're less brainwashed by vegan propaganda and what not.<BR/><BR/>On a low carb forum, people younger than 35 will be rare.<BR/>On a vegetarian/vegan forum, people older than 35 will be rare.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Regarding kids on the ketogenic diet... it also needs to be considered the THERAPUTIC ketogenic diet is not at all like a regular low carb diet. This is a very protein restricted way of eating. Osteoporosis is mainly about protein or deficient growth hormones ... that is, NOT ENOUGH of it. The kids grow slowly and have poor bones because they are fed nothing but lipids. Even water is restricted, because fluids can dilute the ketone level potentially triggering a seizure.<BR/><BR/>I suppose that level of strictness is necessary for some epileptics but there's evidence something as liberal as atkins induction is reasonably effective for epilepsy. Shame, all of that limited food choice, growth retardation and fluid restriction for nothing.<BR/><BR/>It's highly effective for my mood problems, which I suppose can be considered a form of epilepsy (screwed up cell metabolism leading to irrational energy/mood).ItsTheWooohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12057537399918684119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-48709100773432712332008-12-19T23:19:00.000+00:002008-12-19T23:19:00.000+00:00"Controversial Atkins Diet may be beneficial for p...<B>"Controversial Atkins Diet may be beneficial for people with epilepsy"</B><BR/><BR/>http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2005-01/bpl-cad013105.phpStan Bleszynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03922719716458272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-53920997958672978362008-12-19T22:00:00.000+00:002008-12-19T22:00:00.000+00:00Hmmmm, fits well with the low dose coconut oil in ...Hmmmm, fits well with the low dose coconut oil in Alzheimers. Us moderate ODers are on the right track...Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-69542390184928089762008-12-19T17:59:00.000+00:002008-12-19T17:59:00.000+00:00Re: I doubt anyone would really want to be on a fu...Re: <I>I doubt anyone would really want to be on a fully ketogenic diet unless they had a serious epilepsy problem. The question then is whether something as mild as the OD would work.</I><BR/><BR/>Hi Peter,<BR/><BR/>Yes it does. There is a recent paper that tested Atkins' diet on epileptic children and they concluded that it works just as well. I will dig it out later.<BR/>Regards,<BR/>StanStan Bleszynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03922719716458272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-47897267311034419342008-12-19T15:58:00.000+00:002008-12-19T15:58:00.000+00:00Stan, AJCN is always hard to get the full text on ...Stan, AJCN is always hard to get the full text on recent papers and, even if you could get it, it might not necessarily give you the actual foods used, though clearly if it talks about cholesterol concerns you can assume PUFA, probably omega 6. I doubt anyone would really want to be on a fully ketogenic diet unless they had a serious epilepsy problem. The question then is whether something as mild as the OD would work. I certainly know of anecdote (through yourself?) that it can work for "ordinary" epilepsy. But perhaps not for these serious resistant cases...<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-56051681149513006872008-12-19T15:45:00.000+00:002008-12-19T15:45:00.000+00:00You're very welcome Stan!You're very welcome Stan!Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-87977275928432376482008-12-18T03:39:00.000+00:002008-12-18T03:39:00.000+00:00Thanks for breaking it down, Pter. That study was ...Thanks for breaking it down, Pter. That study was rather frustrating to sift through! The fact that it got so much press was equally depressing. I'd have brain fog at ZERO grams of carbs, too!Laurenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12992918908739085132noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-50367241466152246922008-12-17T22:09:00.000+00:002008-12-17T22:09:00.000+00:00Another dodgy paper:Progressive bone mineral conte...Another dodgy paper:<BR/><BR/><B>Progressive bone mineral content loss in children with intractable epilepsy treated with the ketogenic diet</B><BR/><BR/>http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/88/6/1678<BR/><BR/>I am curious what exactly did they feed to the children, I am suspecting vegetable oil. Since they also showed a decline in vitamin D, I doubt if they were getting animal fat and probably not enough meat either.Stan Bleszynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03922719716458272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-62650416137550441692008-12-17T19:03:00.000+00:002008-12-17T19:03:00.000+00:00Basically that's how it works, and yet another gro...<I>Basically that's how it works, and yet another group of "optimals" are "internet fighters" who engage in countless fights and debates with vegetarians :) </I><BR/><BR/>Zbig, this is so true I cannot even comment! 8-:)<BR/><BR/>I have to say that after they banned me on one vegan forum and my account conked out on webmd due to some software glitch, I decided to cut down on that addiction. I am getting better, except Peter may see me more often here (sorry)... 8-:)Stan Bleszynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03922719716458272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-34201050296617573312008-12-17T07:20:00.000+00:002008-12-17T07:20:00.000+00:00> Virtually everyone who adopts > Optimal Di...> Virtually everyone who adopts <BR/>> Optimal Diet in Poland is either <BR/>> old or sick or both. <BR/><BR/>isn't it all over the world?<BR/>two major target groups for diets are :<BR/>A. young girls who need to fit into a smaller dress in a month's time<BR/>B. older folks whose health deteriorates and they want to do something about it<BR/><BR/>Young and middle-aged males with "beer bellies" just don't need any diet, they will cut on beer but not today yet :)<BR/><BR/>Group A fears of fat so they pick what's available in Polish and have a good reputation and support on the internet - mostly Montignac and South Beach <BR/><BR/>Group B don't read these fads, they talk in the doctor's waiting rooms and they quite often have heard of a cousin or a neighbor who got rid of some problems with this fat diet...<BR/><BR/>Basically that's how it works, and yet another group of "optimals" are "internet fighters" who engage in countless fights and debates with vegetarians :)Zbighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10828241285872286311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-57379719846945228822008-12-16T19:56:00.000+00:002008-12-16T19:56:00.000+00:00Re: I suspect the average age of the low-carb grou...Re: <I>I suspect the average age of the low-carb group was much higher than that of the ADA group.</I><BR/><BR/>VEry likely! It would explain why they claimed that the pseudo-Atkins group was chosen based on their preferences. They may have been the people who tried Atkins before. That is almost always older people, in my experience (observations). Virtually everyone who adopts Optimal Diet in Poland is either old or sick or both. It is often the last resort therapy when everything else fails. <BR/><BR/>That vegan forum I mentioned, took that paper as a "proof" against the LC diets in general even though the study itself does not claim so, in fact they wrote that both groups suffered from mental impairments albeit of different kind: LC group during the zero carb stage; ADA group during the whole process.Stan Bleszynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03922719716458272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-53257806528067815102008-12-16T19:20:00.000+00:002008-12-16T19:20:00.000+00:00There is also a problem of the average ages of the...There is also a problem of the average ages of the two cohorts being unknown. Participants were 22-55 years old. <BR/><BR/>Given that the study had an anti-low carb bias, and that age information for the cohorts was not provided, I suspect the average age of the low-carb group was much higher than that of the ADA group. This might account for the reaction time differences and cognitive performance.<BR/><BR/>Mark.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16922415954626790524noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-43978512966875529542008-12-16T17:03:00.000+00:002008-12-16T17:03:00.000+00:00Hi Peter,I actually got the full text later on but...Hi Peter,<BR/><BR/>I actually got the full text later on but gave up on trying to argue it since there was no meat in it! <BR/><BR/>(They also banned me from McDougall's forum after I posted about vit K2 and healthy teeth on high fat+meat diets, so I couldn't respond...) <BR/><BR/> There was nothing in that paper that would tell us what exactly they ate and how much. That is one of the most garbagey unscientific writup I have seen for a long time. I though nothing would surprise any more about those medical "researchers" but they seem to be surpassing themselves.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>Stan (Heretic)Stan Bleszynskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03922719716458272303noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-79836251763067797682008-12-16T15:31:00.000+00:002008-12-16T15:31:00.000+00:00Absolutely. Could just have been adaption. Adding ...Absolutely. Could just have been adaption. Adding back 8g/d isn't exactly going to replete glyciogen stores is it?<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-86143001015914781152008-12-16T14:58:00.000+00:002008-12-16T14:58:00.000+00:00If they wanted to know that the tiny increase in c...If they wanted to know that the tiny increase in carbs (rather than just low carb adaption) was responsible for the improvement, they would have had to have had some of the zero carb participants stay zero carb as a control.donnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02107555662488785352noreply@blogger.com