tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post1069493589248130917..comments2024-03-29T06:45:45.894+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Metformin (06) Insulin-induced insulin resistance is realPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-4083331929445397462018-01-23T20:50:14.917+00:002018-01-23T20:50:14.917+00:00Bob, I see an insulin receptor on the alpha cells ...Bob, I see an insulin receptor on the alpha cells suppressing tonic output of glucagon. I see a separate receptor for an insulinogenic amino acid triggering glucagon exocytosis. I've not even considered whether there might be two pools of glucagon... Or how the summation of signals might decide on exocytosis or not, or even whether Ca2+ ions are involved.... Or whether either receptor is saturatable... Lots of scope to speculate!<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-45640419203682680342018-01-22T22:31:01.575+00:002018-01-22T22:31:01.575+00:00I well recall the post linking to Dr Unger's y...I well recall the <a href="http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2016/02/insulin-glucagon-and-protein.html" rel="nofollow">post</a> linking to Dr Unger's youtube lecture. But, if the insulin hit on the pancreatic beta cells is so strong, how does protein or an insulinogenic amino acid manage to trigger a glucagon release? It seems like the insulin effect would overwhelm the glucagon effect.LA_Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09775262019154051166noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-48787283776889114192018-01-22T17:14:29.915+00:002018-01-22T17:14:29.915+00:00Hi Eric,
Roger Unger has a good handle on glucago...Hi Eric,<br /><br />Roger Unger has a good handle on glucagon. He has lectures on Youtube but for hard copy this review is quite nice<br /><br />https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214853<br /><br />Eventually even pretty poor diabetes protocols do suppress glucagon. It's just a messy way of adjusting to hyperglucagonaemia. LC and keto approaches live with the hyperglucagonaemia as this is utterly normal under ketogenic eating. Or when not eating at all.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-13848668824338058652018-01-22T13:35:21.544+00:002018-01-22T13:35:21.544+00:00Interesting. Thought I had a good idea about T1 bu...Interesting. Thought I had a good idea about T1 but wasn't aware of glucagon. Would you believe that the English wikipedia article makes only very passing reference to glucagon and some in other languages not at all?<br /><br />So cells are living as if the patiend lived in a candy store and kept the sugar coming, even if insulin and BG are carefully controlled. Isn't it surprising that overall life expectancy is not that much lower and cancers are "only" 20% up?<br /><br />This might also imply that ketogenic eating and IF have a smaller effect than we believe.Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15626165768870660952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-75161805601839069252018-01-20T16:34:27.595+00:002018-01-20T16:34:27.595+00:00OK, see how you get on...
PeterOK, see how you get on...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-23976604738388238472018-01-20T16:19:50.950+00:002018-01-20T16:19:50.950+00:00I don't think Somogyi explains it because BG s...I don't think Somogyi explains it because BG simply went back to where it had been, 95 or so. I'm seeing an endo on Wednesday and I'll ask him.<br />Gretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019921800841883073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-38943988912188121482018-01-20T15:14:23.059+00:002018-01-20T15:14:23.059+00:00Yes, dogs are probably self injecting glucagon! I...Yes, dogs are probably self injecting glucagon! I was thinking of Somogyi as, after the initial drop, the BG went back up. In dogs with Somogyi it appears to take a few days from the injected dose increasing to the hyperglycaemic effect kicking in. No idea if blood glucose falls in those first couple of days, probably does...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-3254388439645061952018-01-20T14:07:45.205+00:002018-01-20T14:07:45.205+00:00Hi Peter. The effect was responding to an *increas...Hi Peter. The effect was responding to an *increase* in insulin, not a drop, and BG went *down,* not up as it would with Somogyi. I don't think I have Somogyi, if it exists, as I used a CGM for many months and BG stayed level all night.<br /><br />Dogs are pretty smart. Maybe they were getting up at night and injecting themselves while laughing. That's the Emoji effect.Gretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019921800841883073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-30868358560910307352018-01-20T07:35:25.247+00:002018-01-20T07:35:25.247+00:00Hi Gretchen, interesting. Anything as simply rever...Hi Gretchen, interesting. Anything as simply reversible as responding to a drop in insulin dose strikes me as being Somogyi related. BTW, reading the fine print of the next paper it seems the effect is hepatic rather than peripheral, ah well. Still reading...<br /><br />Another BTW, Dr Bernstein does not accept the Smogoyi effect, he thinks people simply over correct for a hypo. This is not the case in canine patients where the effect is dramatic and not necessarily associated even with a hypo, let alone an over administered self-correction, which these dogs don't do (obviously, being dogs!).<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-4744066403391502452018-01-19T16:35:44.460+00:002018-01-19T16:35:44.460+00:00Peter, this is interesting. I'm a type 2 in a ...Peter, this is interesting. I'm a type 2 in a clinical study of a basal insulin. I report my fasting levels and they tell me what insulin dose to take. Three times, when they said take 2 more units, the next day my fastings were significantly lower, but then they went up again. So the last time they said to increase the insulin, I said no, and later I decreased it and fastings are fine. <br /><br />The only explanations I could come up with was that the extra insulin was triggering an immune response against the insulin or the insulin was causing insulin resistance.<br /><br />This makes me think the second explanation is more likely. Maybe it's my rodentlike genes.Gretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17019921800841883073noreply@blogger.com