tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post2415208629162602977..comments2024-03-29T06:45:45.894+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Fat storage and retrievalPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-88045605754973304522012-09-06T10:15:29.543+00:002012-09-06T10:15:29.543+00:00Hi Peter, this is very interesting and the real ne...Hi Peter, this is very interesting and the real need for vitamins and minerals from plants is something I've been questioning recently.<br /><br />Going off topic... I don't understand, clicking on the 'fat nor protein' link to the PubMed study and reading through it seems to show, on a different note, that:<br /><br />'Both fat and protein intakes stimulate ROS generation. The increase in ROS generation lasted 3 h after cream intake and 1 h after protein intake. Cream intake also caused a significant and prolonged increase in lipid peroxidation. These data are important because increased ROS generation and lipid peroxidation are key events in atherogenesis.'<br /><br />Is this supposed to be bad?<br /><br />I came to your site today to see how you manage to get most of your daily calories from fat, as this is what I'm trying to achieve. I would love to start eating more cream again (I've been avoiding dairy and grains for a while to clear up eczema) but I still have a question mark about dairy since going primal (only from an allergenic point of view and not because of the fat contant) and this pubmed article is confusing me!<br /><br />Can you shed any light?Vanessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12577824707445754912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-86084835016893483822012-09-06T10:14:41.783+00:002012-09-06T10:14:41.783+00:00Hi Peter, this is very interesting and the real ne...Hi Peter, this is very interesting and the real need for vitamins and minerals from plants is something I've been questioning recently.<br /><br />Going off topic... I don't understand, clicking on the 'fat nor protein' link to the PubMed study and reading through it seems to show, on a different note, that:<br /><br />'Both fat and protein intakes stimulate ROS generation. The increase in ROS generation lasted 3 h after cream intake and 1 h after protein intake. Cream intake also caused a significant and prolonged increase in lipid peroxidation. These data are important because increased ROS generation and lipid peroxidation are key events in atherogenesis.'<br /><br />Is this supposed to be bad?<br /><br />I came to your site today to see how you manage to get most of your daily calories from fat, as this is what I'm trying to achieve. I would love to start eating more cream again (I've been avoiding dairy and grains for a while to clear up eczema) but I still have a question mark about dairy since going primal (only from an allergenic point of view and not because of the fat contant) and this pubmed article is confusing me!<br /><br />Can you shed any light? Vanessahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12577824707445754912noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-21584581427321128372010-08-11T12:09:16.373+00:002010-08-11T12:09:16.373+00:00Hi Ed, the fatty acids all do very different thing...Hi Ed, the fatty acids all do very different things and are handled in different ways. Certainly the omega 3 fatty acids are PPAR gamma agonists and will turn on a whole cassette of fat burning genes and I believe palmitic is the same. Very LCFAs are shortened in peroxisomes before beta oxidation in mitochondria. We have techniques for dealing with odd carbon chain fatty acids and trans fatty acids too. The business about palmitic crossing the blood brain barrier and causing hunger (the presumed end result of leptin resistance) is so bizarre that I wrote the <a href="http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2009/09/want-some-acid-bad-trip-on-palmitic.html" rel="nofollow">post</a> on doner kebabs about it. In truth I CAN manage two doner kebabs, large ones at that, but 20 is beyond even my best efforts. Next week's house keeping money is safe in the doner den. Doners are a cheap meal, now banned due to gluten inclusion as a poison along side the healthy saturated fats.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-73201407384203767112010-08-04T09:50:22.762+00:002010-08-04T09:50:22.762+00:00"Is there any huge difference in the metaboli..."Is there any huge difference in the metabolic process of extracting the energy from dietary fat compared to adipose stored fat? I doubt it."<br /><br />Well... Aren't there a dozen or so fatty acid lengths, plus minor variations in saturation (ie quantity and location)<br /><br />Perhaps the metabolism of the fats is relatively common, but I think there might be more variation in hormonal effects. I curious to find a catalog of these. For example, I think I recently heard that palmitic acid can cross the blood brain barrier and cause short term leptin resistance in the hypothalamus. But what about stearic acid? Etc etc. There might be important differences between the various fatty acids that would be important. Polyunsaturated fats ate clearly an important sub class. <br /><br />I guess your point in this post is more about vitamin utilization than other impacts, and my guess is you're right in that all saturated fatty acids are probably burned the same way, using the same co-factors (although of course I don't know this to be a fact). So my query is really tangential. But anyway, I remain curious for a catalog of interactions of the various fatty acids.Edhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02404726297092447442noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-79808823236196365912008-11-24T07:45:00.000+00:002008-11-24T07:45:00.000+00:00As far as a paleo-diet, I am confused on where Dai...As far as a paleo-diet, I am confused on where Dairy would fit in?Feralandroidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17525704508930608248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-53543204009416906502008-05-28T20:59:00.000+00:002008-05-28T20:59:00.000+00:00Have you read Daniel Quinn?Important thinker, that...Have you read <A HREF="http://www.ishmael.com/welcome.cfm" REL="nofollow">Daniel Quinn</A>?<BR/><BR/>Important thinker, that's where I pinched the idea!<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-74802812013635104352008-05-28T20:36:00.000+00:002008-05-28T20:36:00.000+00:00You wrote: "If there is food in excess of the need...You wrote: "If there is food in excess of the needs of the group it will be used to increase the size of the group..."<BR/><BR/>Yeah, true, this reminds me of one of my favourite lines from Good Calories, Bad Calories [if memory serves]: "in times of plenty, species thrive and multiply, they don't become obese and diabetic."GKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03561650040126976340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-88394797851142248142008-05-28T20:15:00.000+00:002008-05-28T20:15:00.000+00:00Hi GK,An interesting comment. I like to think in t...Hi GK,<BR/><BR/>An interesting comment. I like to think in terms of any given population expanding to the limits of its <A HREF="http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2007/11/two-rat-experiment.html" REL="nofollow">food supply</A>. If there is food in excess of the needs of the group it will be used to increase the size of the group, unless there is another limitation placed on population size. I think water supply has been cited for the Kalahari. Unless food availability is constant then there must be fluctuation in availability, some times better than others.<BR/><BR/>I agree that I found the roll of seasonality in hunger came from temperate climates, particularly dental enamel defects in Neanderthals and from arctic climates where Stefansson's accounts included fairly common periods of hunger during poor hunting times with the Eskimo. With a dry/wet pattern there seems to be a similar possibility for periods hunger in tropical Africa. If food congregated at limited water holes, so too would hunters. If drought was bad enough for shrinkage of prey pools then some hunters would need to go hungry... assuming that population size was set by the normal level of relative plenty. The other option for tropical hunger would be immediately following drought when the depleted number of herbivores would disperse, becoming thin on the ground and making hunting much more difficult with a lower yield per unit effort...<BR/><BR/>The concept of severe and frequent famine does seem to be fully agricultural or political in origin. The Harper's <A HREF="http://www.fearandloathinginthekitchen.com/2008/04/oil-we-eat.html" REL="nofollow">article</A> by Richard Manning covers this nicely.<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-5430778852139049492008-05-28T18:11:00.000+00:002008-05-28T18:11:00.000+00:00Hi Peter,Your example scenario of survival during ...Hi Peter,<BR/><BR/>Your example scenario of survival during harsh times in winter makes the point of having evolved an efficient storage system: large enough to last, small enough not to be a burden.<BR/><BR/>The natural human diet is what was eaten while our species evolved. All species thrive eating what they are adapted to eat; speculating what exactly that is for our ancestors (and us) will have to be based on some guesswork.<BR/><BR/>During discussions on this, I notice a lot of people like to invoke the feast/famine principle as you mentioned. I would argue that this has no place in our evolution.<BR/><BR/>Since the split from chimp ancestors about six million years ago, to genetically modern humans about two hundred thousand years ago, our guts evolved to be what they are today. During that entire time, our hominid ancestors never left Africa. They would have subsisted as hunter-gatherers in savannah and forest. Winter would not have existed, so it played no part in our evolutionary diet.<BR/><BR/>Seasons did exist, though. There might have been droughts, but even then, we would have had plenty of game down at the old watering hole from which to choose. There is no reason to believe that in our evolutionary history there were times of famine. Those only happened after agriculture, ten thousand years ago, too little to effect genetic selection.<BR/><BR/>GKGKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03561650040126976340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-82275863810140222002008-01-20T06:11:00.000+00:002008-01-20T06:11:00.000+00:00Right, we should read as much as we can, and take ...Right, we should read as much as we can, and take what makes sense from various gurus. And, of course, rely on our own experience and intuitive wisdom. I don't agree 100% with any guru. I take what works and discard the rest. Kwasniewski's idea that a high-fat adequate-protein diet will cure diseases makes a lot of sense. But I think Bear's food choices are more appropriate to our biochemical and evolutionary needs.<BR/><BR/>I eat more carbs than you, based on Ray Peat's theories. Maybe 150-200 grams. I'm also using Art De Vany's Evolutionary Fitness principles for exercise and intermittent fasting. Also using some raw dairy and other foods like that. I don't think any guru has all the answers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-34733421510754464122008-01-19T19:11:00.000+00:002008-01-19T19:11:00.000+00:00Everyone must make their own decisions. There are ...Everyone must make their own decisions. There are very intelligent people out there, but ultimately our responsibility for ourselves rests with us. I think each person must make up their own minds. No gurus.<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-18302407904012549832008-01-19T17:15:00.000+00:002008-01-19T17:15:00.000+00:00I agree with you that the needs for vitamins and m...I agree with you that the needs for vitamins and minerals seems to vary widely depending on diet. JK's diet probably reduces nutritional needs, while also providing nutrient dense foods. Where we both seem to oppose him is in the emphasis on pork. Red meat and dairy are better. Coconut, macadamia, and cocoa butter are the safest vegetable oils. I guess I am combining Jan Kwasniewski and Bear, with Ray Peat and others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-13256190244804682632008-01-19T09:20:00.000+00:002008-01-19T09:20:00.000+00:00Yes, seems to be the case...PeterYes, seems to be the case...<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-46650027655085289372008-01-19T07:06:00.000+00:002008-01-19T07:06:00.000+00:00"Neither eating fat nor protein deplete vitamin E ..."Neither eating fat nor protein deplete vitamin E levels."<BR/><BR/>Peter, this study compared cream to casein. Polyunsaturated fats, OTOH, do deplete vitamin E. The more PUFA there is in a fat, the more it will tend to deplete Vitamin E. Corn and soybean oil, safflower and flaxseed oil, and canola oil are probably by far the worst. Eating a lot of fish oil or fatty fish will also deplete Vitamin E levels. Saturated fats do not do this. The best fats are ones with very low PUFAs: red meat, palm oil, coconut oil, cocoa butter, mac nut oil, foie gras, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com