tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post3318919418207897430..comments2024-03-27T22:57:00.742+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: The lost 300Peterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-3374489467552553872012-08-04T17:27:48.293+00:002012-08-04T17:27:48.293+00:00Purely self-reporting, but in the NWCR studies, th...Purely self-reporting, but in the NWCR studies, those maintaining weight loss on a low-carb diet ate an average of 497 more calories per day than those on a low-fat diet. They alsso reported less weekly exercise, and less "dietary restraint" (which I believe is jargon for not eating even though you're hungry).<br /><br />Be careful not to be confused by the introductory phrase: "Only 10.8% of participants reported losing weight after a low-carbohydrate diet."<br /><br />That sounds as if about 90% of the low-carb dieters failed to lose weight. In fact, what it means is "Only 10.8% of the people enrolled in the NWCR are low-carb dieters."<br /><br />But that's about 500 calories, not the magic 300. Of course, it's also for weight maintenance rather than weight loss...<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17925473&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSumDavid Isaakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04928598446742324391noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-13833309238776368572012-07-21T14:44:08.073+00:002012-07-21T14:44:08.073+00:00The number "300" also comes up in Wolfga...The number "300" also comes up in Wolfgang Lutz excellent book "Life Withoug Bread." http://www.amazon.ca/Life-Without-Bread-Low-Carbohydrate-Diet/dp/0658001701#_ <br />He states that a healthy diet is one composed of no ore than 72 g or carbohydrate (or roughly the equivalent of 6 slices of bread). This works out to just under 300 calories of carbohydrate. This used to be the old recommendation to diabetics before the discovery of insulin.Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15346661892269510469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-2090048574666258462012-07-13T18:58:31.215+00:002012-07-13T18:58:31.215+00:00John,
I just keep trying to see what makes sense....John,<br /><br />I just keep trying to see what makes sense... Life is, usually, fairly self consistent.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-27193727858929114892012-07-13T00:37:00.103+00:002012-07-13T00:37:00.103+00:00Peter, I love your blog. I am continually amazed ...Peter, I love your blog. I am continually amazed at the nonsense blogged about about the VLC diet in blogosphere. They all need to take a course in neural lipid chemistry. I touch on that nonsense in this blog below. Peter thoughts become things for patients. Those things become reversals of fortune and illness. What I have seen written is done by people who just do not care for humans. They come from people in a lab who work on mice. <br /><br /><br />http://jackkruse.com/brain-gut-4-what-was-homos-solution/johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11126132841611727249noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-90293261526788661562012-07-11T06:49:27.829+00:002012-07-11T06:49:27.829+00:00@George,
you couldn't find a worse dietary mod...@George,<br />you couldn't find a worse dietary model for human nutrition than mice (except ruminants) if you tried.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-3543320666234326772012-07-11T05:18:05.658+00:002012-07-11T05:18:05.658+00:00George,
Yes, action at site of action is which ma...George,<br /><br />Yes, action at site of action is which matters. I did write a post looking at the relevance of T3 vs free-T3, vs receptor bound nuclear T3, vs cerebral nuclear T3 and why TSH (which goes DOWN on LC, certainly for the study folks) might be a window on to the later but Peebles got in the way and it all seems a bit old hat now. Might still tidy it up and hit post with a mention of the cortisol paper... Trouble is that work punishes you for 2 days off with a Bad Rota for the following week!<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-81403094316301814172012-07-11T00:21:29.296+00:002012-07-11T00:21:29.296+00:00@ blogblog,
R D Feinman turned it neatly around by...@ blogblog,<br />R D Feinman turned it neatly around by stating that the high-fat diet in mice is the equivalent of the low-fat diet in humans.<br />Perhaps high-fat feeding in (some) rodents mimics DNL.<br /><br />@Peter, nice paper.<br />What are the three most important factors that determine the effect of any hormone?<br />Location, location, location.<br />We wouldn't worry so much about how much was in the serum sample, if we could learn just as easily where it was going in such a hurry, or where it just came from.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-69494248971917119022012-07-10T12:58:40.047+00:002012-07-10T12:58:40.047+00:00Eva, I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are...Eva, I'm sorry but I have no idea what you are talking about.Manythingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04900106108699426576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-83951504947487264142012-07-10T12:53:51.734+00:002012-07-10T12:53:51.734+00:00@Jeffrey
I believe the insulinotropic properties ...@Jeffrey<br /><br />I believe the insulinotropic properties of milk are (primarily?) down to a couple of BCAA's not the lactose per se.<br /><br />Besides the Ca issue you already mentioned there's also the IGF-1 stimulating property of milk too. I'm presently of the opinion that there's not much of a good reason to routinely consume liquid milk. Although I'm supplementing Iodine as a result (UK produced Milk being a useful dietary source).<br /><br />Ahhh the old carbs before/protein after w/o paradigm, really?<br /><br />I can only speak for myself but I'm doing pretty well on 1xHFMPLC meal/day - I don't feel the need to "fuel" anything, certainly not by carbs at any rate.<br /><br />Now I'm aware of studies that show increased substrate utilisation immediately post workout but equally I understand (not seen any ref's though) that IF'ing also does the same - markedly for protein by accounts.<br /><br />I currently suspect that as long as I keep calories sufficient that timing doesn't really matter, if it did I would expect either no improvements or even a deterioration over time.<br /><br />However, this isn't religion for me, I'm open-minded, but minded at the moment to see how far I can get without resorting to carbs, frequent feeding, this before that, no this after 6pm ya-da, ya-da noise you hear all over the place.<br /><br />Keeping it simple.SS Bikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00678581205592336725noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-53389477621161038542012-07-10T02:46:03.750+00:002012-07-10T02:46:03.750+00:00Manythings, better watch what advice you give. If...Manythings, better watch what advice you give. If you have HYPOglycemia, you would absolutely not want to take metformin. Metformin is for HYPERglycemia (which she does not have). In fact, I know of no medication for hypoglycemia that one could hope to get from a doctor, other than carbs. Some people do find overall blood sugar swings to calm down and maybe even normalize on LC but considering that she actually developed hypoglycemia after going lc, there isn't much hope for lc fixing it. <br /><br />Plus it's dangerous and extremely unhealthy to have tanking blood sugar levels after every meal. She has been experimenting now with small amounts of fruit at each meal to try to block the hypo. We are not sure what causes the hypos, but one guess is lc lowers insulin resistance but for some reason, the levels of insulin released do not lower in concert. Could be that a med for partially blocking insulin production might help, but that's hypothetical on my part unless someone has better info.<br />-EvaEvahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18224463305848437035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-42960399475337827382012-07-09T23:03:19.782+00:002012-07-09T23:03:19.782+00:00http://www.childrenshospital.org/dream/dream_fall0...http://www.childrenshospital.org/dream/dream_fall06/fishing_for_the_right_solution.htmlcwaiandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04837925374165088179noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-18793836079255723742012-07-09T21:34:31.456+00:002012-07-09T21:34:31.456+00:00Might be of interest to you:
Effects of Novel Vac...Might be of interest to you:<br /><br />Effects of Novel Vaccines on Weight Loss in Diet-Induced-Obese (DIO) Mice, pdf: <a href="http://www.jasbsci.com/content/pdf/2049-1891-3-21.pdf" rel="nofollow">www.jasbsci.com/content/pdf/2049-1891-3-21.pdf</a><br /><br />Via:<br /><a href="http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2012/07/09/inducing-autoimmunity-via-vaccination-to-combat-obesity-aka-an-obesity-vaccine/" rel="nofollow">scienceblogs.com/erv/2012/07/09/inducing-autoimmunity-via-vaccination-to-combat-obesity-aka-an-obesity-vaccine/</a>Tony Machhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14823430729798784689noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-28849511913953891952012-07-09T19:52:27.987+00:002012-07-09T19:52:27.987+00:00Hi all, just back from a wedding in Peebles, lovel...Hi all, just back from a wedding in Peebles, lovely extended weekend and utterly knackered. Scotland: Anyone buying 2 litres of bottled water on a Sunday morning is assumed to be overhung! I miss the place. Even though we got glutened in Maryhill.<br /><br />George, I was working towards 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1 via this paper<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14763916<br /><br />which mostly amused me by showing that anyone pontificating on the catastrophic skyrocketing (jk) of 24h urinary cortisol may make incorrect predictions about the good or bad effects of LC diets on the cortisol metabolism of obese people. Take home message; go LC asap if you want to fix your HPA axis, even before weight loss occurs. The paper is written in the worst style possible, but that does seem to be the executive summary.<br /><br />Jeffery, I would view things fundamentally differently. There is a bell shaped curve of the ability to survive starvation. Most folks do OK and would be fine on LC. Some would do really well, ie yourself, with a shut down metabolism and a TSH of 12. At least in terms of surviving a month or so. You might not do well to maintain this state (or its mimic, ketogenic eating) longer than the next carbohydrate meal, assuming the TSH spike is directly carbohydrate related. Others do really badly, I think it is mnature who develops severe symptomatic hypoglycaemia on LC (and presumably on water fasting). I would certainly wonder which of these traits might actually be acquired or epigenetic rather than carried in the nuclear genes. But an interesting observation never the less. But to me starvation is an ubiquitous selection pressure. Macronutrient ratio seems utterly ephemeral cf the rigidities and predictability of starvation.<br /><br />blogblog, I would agree if you included C57BL/6J in your descriptor of mice or rodents in general. Real mice, fed real fat, do fine. But no one studies them except by accident as control groups in studies where the genetically modified study mice are not B6 derived. So we get real wild types as controls.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-8295944943226202472012-07-09T05:52:07.055+00:002012-07-09T05:52:07.055+00:00@george Hendersen,
you mentioned another totally ...@george Hendersen,<br /><br />you mentioned another totally worthless and uterly irelavant mouse study. <br /><br />Mice can't tolerate more than about 5% dietary fat. They are also strictly nocturnal.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-39448366915996665912012-07-09T03:51:56.245+00:002012-07-09T03:51:56.245+00:00Here's the cat, and there's the pigeons......Here's the cat, and there's the pigeons...<br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22147018<br /><br />Endocrinology. 2012 Feb;153(2):690-9. Epub 2011 Dec 6.<br />Circadian feeding drive of metabolic activity in adipose tissue and not hyperphagia triggers overweight in mice: is there a role of the pentose-phosphate pathway?<br />Stucchi P, Gil-Ortega M, Merino B, Guzmán-Ruiz R, Cano V, Valladolid-Acebes I, Somoza B, Le Gonidec S, Argente J, Valet P, Chowen JA, Fernández-Alfonso M, Ruiz-Gayo M.<br />Source<br />Instituto Pluridisciplinar and Departamento de Farmacología, Facultad de Farmacia, Universidad Complutense de Madrid, 28040 Madrid, Spain.<br />Abstract<br />High-fat (HF) diets trigger an increase in adipose tissue and body weight (BW) and disordered eating behavior. Our study deals with the hypothesis that circadian distribution of energy intake is more relevant for BW dynamics than diet composition. Four-week-old mice were exposed for 8 wk to a HF diet and compared with animals receiving control chow. HF mice progressively increased BW, decreased the amount of nocturnal (1800-0900 h) calories (energy or food intake) (30%) and increased diurnal (0900-1800 h) caloric intake (energy or food intake), although total daily intake was identical between groups. Animals were killed at 3-h intervals and plasma insulin, leptin, corticosterone, glucose, and fatty acid levels quantified. Adipose tissue was weighed, and enzymatic activities integral to the pentose phosphate pathway (PPP) assayed in lumbar adipose tissue. <br /><br />In HF mice, there was a shift in the circadian oscillations of plasma parameters together with an inhibition of PPP activity and a decrease in phosphorylated AMP-dependent protein kinase and fatty acid synthase. In a second experiment, HF mice were forced to adhere to a circadian pattern of food intake similar to that in control animals. In this case, BW, adipose tissue, morning plasma parameters and PPP activity appeared to be normal. These data indicate that disordered feeding behavior can trigger BW gain independently of food composition and daily energy intake. <br /><br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21406612<br /><br />Might have enough of this soon to set up shop as a third option to FRH and CIH.<br />It's all about adipose 11β-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase type 1<br />now.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-17545594246419097752012-07-09T02:17:05.819+00:002012-07-09T02:17:05.819+00:00@jeffrey,
couldn't you acquire an epileptic re...@jeffrey,<br />couldn't you acquire an epileptic requirement for ketogenic diet by suffering neuronal damage in utero or in partum, or during development, without inheriting it?<br />Couldn't you acquire a metabolic requirement for ketosis, at least temporarily, by damaging neurons through overindulgence in deep fried sweetened batter, soda, trans-fat cake, and the other toxic treats of the SAD?<br /><br />Also you say "no reason for anyone who is lactose tolerant not to drink organic milk"<br />but there are many immunogenic components to milk that one can be sensitive to - BCM7, IGA, even casozepine might be a bit much for some grown-ups.<br />Not disagreeing with the rest of your statement, just think characterizing milk intolerance as lactose-based is unhelpful because next thing some idiot doctor stuck in the past will test you for lactase and tell you you're imagining things.Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-44172369621642237512012-07-07T16:27:33.517+00:002012-07-07T16:27:33.517+00:00Hi Jeffrey,
Very interesting figures you have the...Hi Jeffrey,<br /><br />Very interesting figures you have there. Sounds like an England Football play, but I'll give it a go.<br /><br />Will it matter if my 40% carbs are mainly fructose and my 40% fats as sunflower oil?<br /><br />Many thanks!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00475937064698324775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-67360969760251341592012-07-07T00:53:14.913+00:002012-07-07T00:53:14.913+00:00@ O Num
PRE-workout: high-carb, low-fat, low-prot...@ O Num<br /><br />PRE-workout: high-carb, low-fat, low-protein<br /><br />POST-w/o: high-pro, low-carb, low-fat <br /><br />Outside of pre- and post-w/o windows: high-fat, low-carb, low-pro<br /><br />http://www.jeffreybrauer.blogspot.com/2012/03/how-to-sync-diet-with-exercise.html<br /><br />Also, although there's no reason for anyone who is lactose tolerant not to drink organic milk, a liter per day is a bit much. You mentioned its insulinogenic property (it is liquid carbs), but I also note it's excess calcium, especially relative to magnesium. 1 - 2 cups per day probably better than either none or a liter.Jeffrey of Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012361017883221081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-64948054746945981742012-07-07T00:45:25.809+00:002012-07-07T00:45:25.809+00:00There is a bell-curve distribution of inherited ne...There is a bell-curve distribution of inherited need for macronutrient division. <br /><br />VLC on one end (if you do not get epileptic seizures unless you eat a ketogenic diet, then you did not inherit a need for a ketogenic diet), HCLF on the other (people who are skinny and highly functional long-term on HCLF: "hard-gainers", Colpo, Guyenet). The avg person needs 40% cals from carb, 40% from fat, 20% from pro.<br /><br />http://www.jeffreybrauer.blogspot.com/2012/03/low-carb-or-low-fat-it-depends.html<br /><br />If people from the middle of the curve ate VLC, I can certainly see that not working for them, maybe even manifesting as symptoms of hypothyroid (as actual hypo myself - TSH 12 - I well know there are so many symptoms that CAN be hypothyroidism). Such people would experience huge relief of such symptoms by going to the aforementioned 40% carb etc.<br /><br />Too many people extrapolating from their own personal experience -> everyone.Jeffrey of Troyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08012361017883221081noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-15373694794392360042012-07-06T22:58:05.187+00:002012-07-06T22:58:05.187+00:00Have you seen this?
More calories that are not cal...Have you seen this?<br />More calories that are not calories. Not fat calories, anyway.<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22593546<br />who knew there was a "clock" protein?<br /><br /><br />FASEB J. 2012 May 25. [Epub ahead of print]<br />Timed high-fat diet resets circadian metabolism and prevents obesity.<br />Sherman H, Genzer Y, Cohen R, Chapnik N, Madar Z, Froy O.<br />Source<br />Institute of Biochemistry, Food Science, and Nutrition, Robert H. Smith Faculty of Agriculture, Food, and Environment, The Hebrew University of Jerusalem, Rehovot, Israel.<br />Abstract<br />Disruption of circadian rhythms leads to obesity and metabolic disorders. Timed restricted feeding (RF) provides a time cue and resets the circadian clock, leading to better health. In contrast, a high-fat (HF) diet leads to disrupted circadian expression of metabolic factors and obesity. We tested whether long-term (18 wk) clock resetting by RF can attenuate the disruptive effects of diet-induced obesity. Analyses included liver clock gene expression, locomotor activity, blood glucose, metabolic markers, lipids, and hormones around the circadian cycle for a more accurate assessment. Compared with mice fed the HF diet ad libitum, the timed HF diet restored the expression phase of the clock genes Clock and Cry1 and phase-advanced Per1, Per2, Cry2, Bmal1, Rorα, and Rev-erbα. Although timed HF-diet-fed mice consumed the same amount of calories as ad libitum low-fat diet-fed mice, they showed 12% reduced body weight, 21% reduced cholesterol levels, and 1.4-fold increased insulin sensitivity. Compared with the HF diet ad libitum, the timed HF diet led to 18% lower body weight, 30% decreased cholesterol levels, 10% reduced TNF-α levels, and 3.7-fold improved insulin sensitivity. Timed HF-diet-fed mice exhibited a better satiated and less stressed phenotype of 25% lower ghrelin and 53% lower corticosterone levels compared with mice fed the timed low-fat diet. Taken together, our findings suggest that timing can prevent obesity and rectify the harmful effects of a HF diet.-Sherman, H., Genzer, Y., Cohen, R., Chapnik, N., Madar, Z., Froy, O. Timed high-fat diet resets circadian metabolism and prevents obesity.<br />PMID: 22593546 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]Puddleghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00953398103675945541noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-28404755723057453882012-07-06T11:08:40.561+00:002012-07-06T11:08:40.561+00:00diet composition table figures are per 2000 kcal. ...diet composition table figures are per 2000 kcal. Did they maintain weight eating 2000 kcal with TEE of 3137 kcal?mirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14519699719300201299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-86779018532894107842012-07-06T08:10:15.181+00:002012-07-06T08:10:15.181+00:00miro,
Why do you devise macronutrient ratios from...miro,<br /><br />Why do you devise macronutrient ratios from TEE when there's diet composition table available in the study? VLC diet was 50g carbs, 150g protein (25g more than in run-in diet, I doubt this difference in protein can account for 300 Cal difference in TEE).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-82809680915340374592012-07-05T14:07:10.249+00:002012-07-05T14:07:10.249+00:00Jama study VLC guys mean maintenance TEE was 3137k...Jama study VLC guys mean maintenance TEE was 3137kcal. So, 30% protein=235g and 10% carbs=78g.<br />This is very high protein and 'not so low' carbs. They probably relied on gluconeogenesis. Add protein thermogenic effect to this and extra 300 calories doesnt sound strange any more.<br />I'm not sure if dietary fat played much role here.mirohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14519699719300201299noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-66194719520401406612012-07-04T11:48:07.212+00:002012-07-04T11:48:07.212+00:00Eva, some people with diabetes/bad insulin resista...Eva, some people with diabetes/bad insulin resistance won't be able to lose fat without medical treatments such as metformin. Other people have under-active thyroids but lose weight easily with thyroid supplementation. No doubt other disorders exist that make weight loss difficult (absent treatment).<br /><br />Given the above, I don't know of any sensible person who would want to deny that there are people for whom low carb is not enough, or not enough on its own, to address their obesity.Manythingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04900106108699426576noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-61343494174683302242012-07-04T02:46:05.963+00:002012-07-04T02:46:05.963+00:00Good point. That's why it's not a great i...Good point. That's why it's not a great idea to restrict yourself to under 50g/day of carbs over a length of time that results in you losing your hair or feeling like dirt. Having tried it, I find it's also very difficult to eat that small a quantity of carbs, and lucky for me I can thrive on 75g/day. If I found I could not maintain the desired body weight at 50g/day of carbs, I would use a cyclic ketogentic diet, and/or intermittent fasting. If you can't live well on carbs, you keep working until you find the low carb solution. It's not a 900 pound gorilla, it's a puzzle to solve for yourself to meet your individual needs.Apolloswabbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10048632865194585592noreply@blogger.com