tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post6346635622418474001..comments2024-03-18T22:09:37.509+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: TV Pantomine or the Oxford studyPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger70125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-64332661787788884292014-02-20T13:22:40.147+00:002014-02-20T13:22:40.147+00:00@blogblog
Many of the natives were actually quite...@blogblog<br /><br />Many of the natives were actually quite unhealthy? That's not what McCarrison reported, and he was their doctor for 7 years. <br /><br />If you want to say cane juice contains negligible minerals, you have to say plants contain negligible minerals. <br /><br />Your last two comments suggest negligible knowledge of what the minerals in grains actually do. <br />Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-41973384932416441442014-02-19T12:12:10.204+00:002014-02-19T12:12:10.204+00:00@Jane,
The so called "excellent" health...@Jane,<br /><br />The so called "excellent" health of "natives" in the late 19th/20th was entirely relative to the utterly abysmal health of contemporary Westerners (eg TB, syphilis, rotten teeth, rickets, childhood malnutrition). In absolute terms many of the "natives" were actually quite unhealthy.<br /><br />Cane juice contains negligible minerals<br /><br />Fructans in wheat and rye are proven causes of IBS. It makes no difference whether these grains are wholemeal or not.<br /><br />White rice promotes diabetes and obesity because it a high GI/low fibre product - not because it is low in minerals. <br /><br />-blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-25229377092897131212014-02-19T11:39:20.660+00:002014-02-19T11:39:20.660+00:00@Michael Frederik (and raphi)
'What thing are...@Michael Frederik (and raphi)<br /><br />'What thing are in fruit and vege that aren't in meat exactly?' <br /><br />Meat contains little or none of the following important/essential nutrients:<br /><br />- phytonutrients (eg carotenoids)<br />- calcium<br />- magnesium<br />- manganese<br />- Vitamin C <br />- dietary fibre<br /><br /><br /><br />blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-87538016518114918432014-02-18T18:19:11.708+00:002014-02-18T18:19:11.708+00:00Every time when I read about the importance of a v...Every time when I read about the importance of a vaginal birth for the development of a good immunity, I can't hold myself from regrets that it didn't happen in my case - my mom has zero allergies and almost never has a headache, unlike me. I look like her, but all my health issues came from my father - allergies, migraines, kidney stones (one episode while eating low-fat/low red meat diet if anybody would jump to say it was LCarbing to blame). Fortunately, I didn't develop ischemia by the age 40 like him, and I didn't die at 51.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-71907129366755830452014-02-16T13:47:20.281+00:002014-02-16T13:47:20.281+00:00@LeenaS
I expect your family has genes that make t...@LeenaS<br />I expect your family has genes that make the pancreas produce insulin abnormally. You see this abnormality in relatives of diabetics.<br /><br />'Impaired pulsatile secretion of insulin in relatives of patients with non-insulin-dependent diabetes'<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3283553<br /> Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-75326541081005960172014-02-15T18:20:21.509+00:002014-02-15T18:20:21.509+00:00Jane:
My mother's gut flora could well have b...Jane: <br />My mother's gut flora could well have been compromised, too, but carbohydrate intolerance (not a disease, just a trend) seems to run strong within the family, even when local, fermented food is used. I have seen symptoms come and go in generations directly before and after me. So no, it is neither the lack of whole grains or fermented goods, nor it is the abundance of white sugar or white flour - or obesity, for that matter. It must be hard trying to do the guesswork from far away, but sorry, you just missed here.<br /><br />Galina:<br />With kwasniewski (or LCHF, whatever you call it) type of eating I can actually taste even fish. Before I turned sick on the smell only; now I just turn little itchy - and sleep four or so extra hours on the night after a meal containing fish... provided that rest of the meal is reasonable. Tried that 3 or 4 times, not willing to repeat experiment often but survive it, unolike ever before. So, maybe someday...LeenaShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02068331185278930853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-92048007446956531582014-02-15T17:17:17.318+00:002014-02-15T17:17:17.318+00:00Jane,
I am afraid that my son got his allergies fr...Jane,<br />I am afraid that my son got his allergies from his parents, he developed eczema rush at the age one month, way before receiving any food except my breast milk. His first regular food was oatmeal at the age of 6 months. I followed all recommendations of anty-allergy diet as I understood it then - no tomatoes, smoked meats, citruses and so on. I don't think that rye bread being made out of refined flour made a difference because while it was consumed daily, it was not the main ingredient. A main meal of the day was normally a cabbage soup, a small amount of meat with potatoes/buckwheat on a side + salad made with raw fresh or fermented vegetables,+ one slice of bread, a tea.<br />Whole flour was considered to be inferior one when I was growing up, now it is changing due to modern-day ideas borrowed mostly from the western countries, there low-fat products everywhere on store shelves. The general crowd in a public transportation system still looks thin, but the number of fat people, especially children is on the rise. When I was at school 1967-1977, no student was fat there. Mostly were skinny, I was slightly plump , but not enough to be teased for it.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-59648686985435072422014-02-15T11:34:26.282+00:002014-02-15T11:34:26.282+00:00@LeenaS
It was shown recently that the gut immune ...@LeenaS<br />It was shown recently that the gut immune system is regulated by bacteria. Fibre fermentation encourages regulatory T cells. I wonder if the reason your problems started at such an early age is that your mother did not pass on to you the 'right' gut bacteria.<br />'Commensal microbe-derived butyrate induces the differentiation of colonic regulatory T cells'<br />http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12721.html<br /><br />@Galina<br />You once told me that Russians consider wholemeal bread inferior. I concluded from this that refined rye flour was a likely cause of your family's health problems. You did not argue against this idea. Are you now saying that your son's allergies were caused by wholemeal bread?<br />Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-19408605265628337332014-02-14T14:55:40.229+00:002014-02-14T14:55:40.229+00:00Leena, you are so much like my son! I had trouble ...Leena, you are so much like my son! I had trouble to introduce any protein into his diet when he was a baby , after one year he could eat only small amount of rabbit meat, after 3 years he could have other meats, but not eggs and fish. Fish is the only allergy which didn't go away with removing bread from his diet, but he eats rice and buckwheat without a problem. My allergy on fish is also here to stay, but I now can visit people with cats for extended periods, just can't sleep in their houses. Why fish is so problematic? It is a rhetoric question.<br />Jane, many people report resolving or diminishing of allergy issues when they stop eating grains, and resuming of allergies after re-introducing grains, especially wheat, into their diets. It doesn't exactly fit your explanation.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-63769934344707809712014-02-14T13:49:54.319+00:002014-02-14T13:49:54.319+00:00Jane, yes, my tolerance for many proteins has alwa...Jane, yes, my tolerance for many proteins has always been compromised. It started at a mature age of 11 months. But it is strongly modulated by carb dose. So, now I'm symptom free, but only on LoCarb, HiSFA and lowish protein. However, I was never symptom free before. And now I tolerate former allergens better (animal dust, pollen, edible proteins), not worse than before.<br /><br />This test has continued for 13+ years, and my tolerance is still improving, not degrading. I no longer react against pollen, eggs and nuts, and I can stay inside with dogs. Maybe one day I can sleep with a cat and eat fish? Grains are not a big deal, compared to that :)LeenaShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02068331185278930853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-46994950290495663132014-02-14T13:47:08.301+00:002014-02-14T13:47:08.301+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.LeenaShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02068331185278930853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-2897470066318497892014-02-14T10:40:43.054+00:002014-02-14T10:40:43.054+00:00Sounds to me like you've lost 'oral tolera...Sounds to me like you've lost 'oral tolerance' for grain proteins. If you stop eating something entirely this can happen. Your immune system isn't supposed to react to food proteins any more than it's suppposed to react to your own proteins. <br /><br />There are cells called regulatory T cells which are specific for a particular protein (eg gluten) and suppress unwanted reactions. Coeliac patients have regulatory T cells that don't work properly. Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-80336192269203882192014-02-14T06:00:11.473+00:002014-02-14T06:00:11.473+00:00Jane:
Nowadays I can tolerate some pure, white and...Jane:<br />Nowadays I can tolerate some pure, white and deadly sugar, if carbohydrate load is not high and if the rest of the food is ok. Yet I cannot tolerate half a slice of whole grain, fully fermented rye bread. <br /><br />I keep on trying grains, once or twice a year. Foolishness maybe, but it is interesting, since all my former food allergies (except fish) are gone, thanks to LCHF. Symptoms return within minutes and last a few days.LeenaShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02068331185278930853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-28179904682465742332014-02-13T13:06:12.585+00:002014-02-13T13:06:12.585+00:00@LeenaS
It took you 40 years to find out you can&#...@LeenaS<br />It took you 40 years to find out you can't tolerate bread? How then can you be sure your symptoms weren't due to white bread and white sugar? Mild micronutrient deficiencies mean your body works quite well for a while but it can't repair itself properly. <br /><br />Of course if you exchange grains and sugar for animal fats your health will improve. You're eliminating foods which have had micronutrients removed, and you're getting more fat-soluble vitamins. Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-89412663568913685712014-02-12T18:28:45.295+00:002014-02-12T18:28:45.295+00:00Like Peter, I have nothing against bread as long a...Like Peter, I have nothing against bread as long as I do not have to eat it. My country is famous for whole grains and dark fermented breads; yet I tolerate these no better than their white variants. Unfortunately it took me 40 years to find that out. The color of sugar does not count, either. It's all in quantities. Trading grain and sugar calories for animal fats has been the best health promoting lifestyle change for me so far.<br /><br />Doing the trick with butter, lard and bone broths is all wrong, of course. Yet it is the only way I stay symptom free, in spite of our bread and veggies loving nutrition scientists... who, btw, tend to cherry pick their data much like net vegans and you, Jane, in these last comments. Eventually it gets just boring. Sorry.LeenaShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02068331185278930853noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-616924584730326072014-02-09T15:10:31.275+00:002014-02-09T15:10:31.275+00:00Peter, thanks for the updated lard analysis. It s...Peter, thanks for the updated lard analysis. It seems we have oleate 35, linoleate 23, palmitate 20 and stearate 10. This is interesting because in the paper about transport of iron across lipid bilayers, oleate carried nearly as much as linoleate which carried the most. I'd say lard is to be avoided if you're a lab mouse and don't want diabetes. <br /><br />I hear what you say about bread. I think it's possible that white bread can permanently damage the immune system.<br /><br />@Serova<br />I have devoted decades of my life to finding out how biology works, not to proving the danger of eating red meat. Refined carbs are far worse. Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-37117846816718313552014-02-09T13:01:20.869+00:002014-02-09T13:01:20.869+00:00raphi,
Yes, I'm a Brit, Nottingham born and b...raphi,<br /><br />Yes, I'm a Brit, Nottingham born and bred from very mixed genetics. Family is split between Nottingham and Sheffield. My dad helped build Queen's Medical. Embarrassing that the Nottingham neurology department is so dangerous and anti Sheffield, who seem to have it correct...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-32546087891085020212014-02-09T10:29:28.393+00:002014-02-09T10:29:28.393+00:00"I feel that eating bread is perfectly OK (th..."I feel that eating bread is perfectly OK (though I would never consider doing so myself) provided you have considered the potential consequences and are happy to go ahead" ---> with this understated rhetoric, no need to show your British passport @ the security check-point! :)<br />[you are British, right?...if not, the internet is a lovely place to make a fool of ones self]raphihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08992252569979714724noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-88215926029162804732014-02-09T08:04:08.126+00:002014-02-09T08:04:08.126+00:00Galina, yes. No toxin kills everyone unless the ch...Galina, yes. No toxin kills everyone unless the challenge is very, very extreme. A new selection pressure will result in genetic adaptation too. Just as some people can eat the SAD and stay slim and healthy for many years, so too some can undoubtedly eat bread. I'm not one of them.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-58455432017532814682014-02-09T02:23:56.918+00:002014-02-09T02:23:56.918+00:00@Jane,
I am angry at the people who use their edu...@Jane, <br />I am angry at the people who use their education and qualifications to scare others, even diabetics, into eating whole grains and avoiding red meat and butter. You devoted decades of your life to prove the danger of eating red meat. LeenaS's comment redirected my mind into the thinking about people like you as tragic figures and my anger went away. I do not want you to suffer.Serovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08222310607049510194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-29193167733077930942014-02-09T02:23:31.418+00:002014-02-09T02:23:31.418+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Serovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08222310607049510194noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-34987425002956487212014-02-09T01:36:34.914+00:002014-02-09T01:36:34.914+00:00Jane, thank you, it is an interesting study, I boo...Jane, thank you, it is an interesting study, I bookmarked it in order to re-read more carefully.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-74555859756924148972014-02-09T00:32:08.589+00:002014-02-09T00:32:08.589+00:00@Peter,
Do you think that it is possible that some...@Peter,<br />Do you think that it is possible that some people are better adapted to live on bread than others, and is it likely that such adaptation made them prone to store iron more efficiently and turned red meat for them in a less healthy choice?<br />It is what I guess just from the position of a human logic and common sense. I know that science operates on much more than that.Galina L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09156132815504279615noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-51741187998167126762014-02-08T21:01:24.222+00:002014-02-08T21:01:24.222+00:00Hi Jane and all,
I feel that eating bread is perf...Hi Jane and all,<br /><br />I feel that eating bread is perfectly OK (though I would never consider doing so myself) provided you have considered the potential consequences and are happy to go ahead. I struggle with the concept of recommending it to others, who may not have a perfect diet, and who may be unaware of the consequences of a hiccup. If you live in Newark and develop a gluten ataxia (without any gut signs) you will be referred to Queen’s Medical in Nottingham. You will be labelled as having an idiopathic neurodegenerative disease and provided with a wheelchair. Only the very luckiest people would be referred to Sheffield where Dr Hadjivassiliou would almost certainly suggest a year’s trial on a gluten free diet. Look, no wheelchair. This is the risk from eating bread in a modern UK diet.<br /><br />Iron is interesting. Its storage and utilisation are, obviously, controlled by the mitochondria. This is where haem is synthesised and where rather a lot of FeS clusters live. Unhappy mitochondria might well lead to unhappy iron metabolism. PUFA make for unhappy mitochondria. I have discussed before my view that PUFA = cirrhosis. If inadequate iron is available to generate cirrhosis copper will do the job perfectly well. The copper is frequently there on histology, from clinical canine patients with cirrhosis, ask my wife.<br /><br />Both D12492 and D12451 are described as high fat diets by research groups (of the most execrable standards) when they are in fact high PUFA plus sucrose diets. F3666 is a high fat diet. Even this is far too high in PUFA for health. The fat in D12492 and D12451 is discussed here, the original analysis markedly underestimated PUFA content.<br /><br />http://www.researchdiets.com/blog/lard-fatty-acid-profile-update<br /><br />The concept that Stefansson and Andersen could gain adequate Mn from tea and coffee suggest that we have little to fear from an all meat, iron loaded diet just so long as our tea drinking is adequate. We Brits should be fine…<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-12503267641124141562014-02-07T15:53:33.577+00:002014-02-07T15:53:33.577+00:00@LeenaS
It would be interesting to know whether co...@LeenaS<br />It would be interesting to know whether coconut oil increases iron absorption like some other fats do. Perhaps it doesn't. There is a study showing that many kinds of fatty acid can carry iron across artificial membranes, and the one that carried the most wasn't saturated at all, it was linoleic acid. Palmitic acid carried the least. So it isn't saturated vs unsaturated at all. <br /><br />However it does look as if certain kinds of saturated fats might be able to change the activity of the transporter that carries iron and manganese, so that it carries more iron and less manganese. <br /><br />The problem with iron is that unlike other metals it doesn't really get excreted. Iron overload has been found in A LOT of diseases. <br /><br />'Transport of Fe2+ across lipid bilayers: possible role of fatty acids'<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3828339<br />'Manganese absorption and retention in rats is affected by the type of dietary fat'<br />http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11697763Janehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175128589806816624noreply@blogger.com