tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post7319809189146320730..comments2024-03-27T22:57:00.742+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Musing about linoleic acidPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-63105548671519923462017-03-05T11:17:08.120+00:002017-03-05T11:17:08.120+00:00If I understand correctly at high levels of FFA (f...If I understand correctly at high levels of FFA (from fasting or feeding) the fat type does not matter?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293751474446376305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-77267484865840683152017-03-05T07:30:54.815+00:002017-03-05T07:30:54.815+00:00I think you are looking at the difference between ...I think you are looking at the difference between oxidising a fat which reduces the CoQ couple via FADH2 (saturated) vs one which fails to do so (linoleate) This applies during beta oxidation feeding through to the ETC, ie during lipid metabolism. Under conditions of normal physiological fasting the the FFA levels are so high that this does not apply and a simple block on the ETC at the docking site, using any FFA-CoA, will normalise the potential over production of ATP and coincidentally generate superoxide to signal insulin resistance at the same time (blocking the CoQ-complex III site will reduce the CoQ couple and so raise the NADH:NAD+ ratio). These are distinct processes for differing circumstances. Unfortunately the group suggesting the CoQ docking blockade have published nothing since and I don't trust them anyway! But they're probably correct here. All the ceramide stuff is just downstream knock on effects.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-17334883899610138622017-03-04T22:24:42.276+00:002017-03-04T22:24:42.276+00:00Hi, thanks for your answer. The mechanism behind i...Hi, thanks for your answer. The mechanism behind insulin resistance from FFA is really interesting and I the protons theory seems to be useful. <br />I have in mind a theory on more macro level that the body want to spare glucose when fat is available to use as energy (in a form of FFA) thus the cell inhibit GLUT4 receptor and creates "insulin resistance".<br /><br />The studies I posted in the my last comment was about comparing PUFA, MUFA and saturated fat on the level of the insulin resistance and found no difference, what do you think about that?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293751474446376305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-50086949869078075242017-03-02T17:02:50.176+00:002017-03-02T17:02:50.176+00:00"but" not "bit" at the end the..."but" not "bit" at the end there<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-13566925500056467172017-03-02T17:01:29.655+00:002017-03-02T17:01:29.655+00:00Hi tomer,
I have the idea from my own Protons con...Hi tomer,<br /><br />I have the idea from my own Protons concept and it fits well with feeding studies as mentioned in your first reference. In this speculative post I’m interested in the failure to develop insulin resistance which occurs at peak post prandial nutrient supply, when calories available are in excess of what is needed rather than the insulin resistance of fasting. <br /><br />For short term studies using the acute induction of elevated FFAs I suspect that the induction of insulin resistance has nothing to do with lipid oxidation directly. I have a post in mind based on https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20573749 where by simply fasting normal healthy blokes they got FFAs to 2000micromol/l. This is utterly physiological and comparable to most lipid/heparin infusion studies. I have another study (can’t find it off hand) where the idea is floated that extra-mitochondrial FFAs or a derivative block the docking site of CoQH2 with complex III. This would markedly reduce the CoQ couple and signal insulin resistance via superoxide generation at complex I, reverse electron transport mediated. It probably doesn’t matter which FFA/derivative drops in to the docking site, the CoQH2 is not going to get in there…. What happens to amplify the signal at the cellular level (ceramides and the like) is interesting bit probably not fundamental.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-59891928208364936312017-03-02T11:05:49.014+00:002017-03-02T11:05:49.014+00:00Hi Peter what is your source for the statement &qu...Hi Peter what is your source for the statement "Linoleic acid produces excessive whole body insulin sensitivity". From what I saw there is no real difference between the fatty acids.<br /><br />http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002604951400328X<br /><br />https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17339025<br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15293751474446376305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-84756475093196818552017-03-01T22:34:30.429+00:002017-03-01T22:34:30.429+00:00Ironic that linoleic acid is put on a pedestal bec...Ironic that linoleic acid is put on a pedestal because we cannot make it ourselves. Maybe there are good reasons we haven't evolved to create such vulnerable and potentially hazardous molecules! <br /><br />Nutritionists and cardiologists must have misinterpreted "essential" as a nutritional panacea. <br /><br />Thanks for the blog, such an amazing intellectual wormhole!Kaitlynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00739240564057464708noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-88672376578087080702017-02-27T06:46:27.821+00:002017-02-27T06:46:27.821+00:00Hi Allan, don't want to jump in on Robert'...Hi Allan, don't want to jump in on Robert's reply, he knows much more on this than I do. But these are doses which are not going to have a bulk oxidation effect, you are probably looking at high level signalling effects rather than mitochondrial effects. Whether the g-protein coupled effects are Good or Bad is another question. Good might be correct but I haven't looked at it beyond Sauer's work. Overall 0.6g/d is not a lot of fat compared to over 100g of saturated/MUFA fat per day.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-46470682352427669362017-02-24T21:52:26.876+00:002017-02-24T21:52:26.876+00:00Greetings Robert,
As one who's written the bo...Greetings Robert,<br /><br />As one who's written the book on O3 :), I was wondering if you might have an opinion you wouldn't mind sharing.<br /><br />Our son is markedly more cheery and pleasant to be around when he's taking an O3 supplement. He does one pill, which works out to 400mg EPA & 200mg DHA per day.<br /><br />Being an all things in moderation type of fellow, I sometimes wonder about long-term effects of such a high amount since from what I can tell that is beyond what anyone could reasonably get by way of diet. Too much LA is clearly established as bad, but I could imagine too much O3 also being bad except no one's bothered to look since it's virtually unheard of today given the Western diet. Your thoughts, sir? Ta. ;)Allan Folzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06762674627739423845noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-75421751466976521502017-02-17T05:58:01.526+00:002017-02-17T05:58:01.526+00:00Hi Robert,
You're welcome. I'd not heard ...Hi Robert,<br /><br />You're welcome. I'd not heard of Springer Books, they look quite interesting!<br /><br />All the best<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-48961470669844836382017-02-16T12:37:06.735+00:002017-02-16T12:37:06.735+00:00Peter - GREAT to see you back producing thought pr...Peter - GREAT to see you back producing thought provoking often fascinating debate.<br /><br />I referenced your post in the Springer related chapters linked below including in respect on CPT1A Innuit.<br /><br /><br />DLS<br /><br />These pathways are complex interlinked interdependent etc. Oxidative stress and the downstream consequences of excesses is arguably the core issue.<br /><br />LA is not inherently bad; it depends how it is metabolised; simplistically I suggest it depends if it directed to energy production or tissue creation and repair. Peroxisomes and peroxisomal related pathways arguably play a big part.<br /><br />The Kung_people eat a high Omega 6 nut the mogongo as a staple (which also contain significant amounts of an obscure Omega 3) during the dry season and were free of western disease but may have exhibited a slightly higher inflammatory profile compared to other groups. (google Kung and Omega six and you will find lots of debate)<br /><br />They ate nose to tail, worked hard for their food etc.<br /><br />If you are lean active and exercising hard you are likely largely partitioning off your LA intake to energy and likely through in part activation of peroxisomal related energy pathways which are activated by exercise and fast.<br /><br />Net antioxidant nutrient related intake will also factor, so eating whole nuts is not the same as eating oxidized refined vegetable oils, industrial processed fried high Omega 6 poultry fat etc.<br /><br />Effects of diet are also very long term; so it is difficult to guess at what effect a high peanut diet in a very active person will have long term.<br /><br />The LA argument is not about peanuts :), but about those eating excess processed linoleic acid in the context of a western nutrient depleted diet and often absent significant exercise or 'intermeal fasts' space between food intake from a long term perspective.<br /><br />I wrote 6 chapters CH27-32 on 'all of this' for a Springer Book https://books.google.je/books?id=lEgWDQAAQBAJ&pg - sometimes some of them are / were visible on google books searches - )I get nothing beyond the honor of being invited to contribute and a free copy - maybe your institution or library has a copy.)<br />Robert Andrew Brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05561132890400068010noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-3878363813520143292017-02-16T09:20:00.070+00:002017-02-16T09:20:00.070+00:00TA very common parlance in Australia too! So Ta Pe...TA very common parlance in Australia too! So Ta Peter! Shazahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00293836940850429599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-81408091441699295272017-02-15T14:25:19.679+00:002017-02-15T14:25:19.679+00:00not following anybody, just doing my thing. so far...not following anybody, just doing my thing. so far so good, im the youngest 39 old guy in the world. to bad my adipocytes are loaded with linoniun... well nobody's perfect. i know is not your thing, but looking forward to yr detailed " what i eat 2017 edition post" with results... D1Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750123947536499341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-67586551880643504992017-02-15T08:28:13.967+00:002017-02-15T08:28:13.967+00:00Don't follow me, I've no idea where I'...<i>Don't follow me, I've no idea where I'm going!</i><br /><br />Brilliant! That's the right attitude. gallier2https://www.blogger.com/profile/04285836062429366578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-61519798175694700202017-02-15T05:35:46.146+00:002017-02-15T05:35:46.146+00:00DLS, ultimately you will have to make your own dec...DLS, ultimately you will have to make your own decisions. If you follow Dr Guyenet, you're f***ed. Don't follow me, I've no idea where I'm going!<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-33311046775915917932017-02-14T19:18:45.016+00:002017-02-14T19:18:45.016+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.D1Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750123947536499341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-51803040243841118482017-02-14T19:07:47.517+00:002017-02-14T19:07:47.517+00:00but.. peter, stephan guyenet eats a lot of peanut...but.. peter, stephan guyenet eats a lot of peanuts! o wait... crap. btw he an other guys are unconcerned with " whole foods high in omega-6" because =/= oxidized rancid veg oil crap. but im doing like 200gr a day... looking forward to yr post. plz plz try to include 1 dumb down resume in the post... n the meantime ill try- really hard- to lower my peanut intake, ( still have a 20kg bag...) just 2 days of "restriction" ( 100gr) and my abs start to pop, skin and health are perfect so far... so we'll see. edit. >>>> how about 100gr macadamias a day???? thy have more cals and are expensive as fk but no o6.... D1Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750123947536499341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-43834335054772445482017-02-14T09:53:20.143+00:002017-02-14T09:53:20.143+00:00DLS, more on 13-HODE in the next post. I'd be ...DLS, more on 13-HODE in the next post. I'd be careful.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-56052869788871498602017-02-13T22:36:41.434+00:002017-02-13T22:36:41.434+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.D1Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750123947536499341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-20471034823596001132017-02-13T12:44:33.983+00:002017-02-13T12:44:33.983+00:00DSL,
13-HODE
NY, depends on adipocyte lipid dro...DSL, <br /><br />13-HODE<br /><br />NY, depends on adipocyte lipid droplet turnover. On weight watchers it will never happen, on a ketogenic diet it might happen faster but it will generate more 13-HODE. "Ordinary" turnover time is thought to be about 5 years but I can't find the paper off hand...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-61216918549510623592017-02-12T15:10:42.647+00:002017-02-12T15:10:42.647+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.D1Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08750123947536499341noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-39140614966847946492017-02-11T19:23:40.039+00:002017-02-11T19:23:40.039+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.annleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17666381399321975755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-74103801875056336782017-02-11T19:23:24.248+00:002017-02-11T19:23:24.248+00:00@Jonathan - HSL == Hormone Sensistive Lipase.@Jonathan - HSL == Hormone Sensistive Lipase.annleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17666381399321975755noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-42899637367570720822017-02-11T15:03:38.976+00:002017-02-11T15:03:38.976+00:00How the longer term project of dealing with kilos ...How the longer term project of dealing with kilos of linoleic in adipocytes would look like? NYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07643338459560611241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-30841957744222679102017-02-11T14:59:23.291+00:002017-02-11T14:59:23.291+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.NYhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07643338459560611241noreply@blogger.com