tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post7686989237186226668..comments2024-03-29T06:45:45.894+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: A brief discussion of ketosisPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger45125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-51432969330957805622020-11-03T05:35:00.167+00:002020-11-03T05:35:00.167+00:00Hi Amir,
It's many years since I've thoug...Hi Amir,<br /><br />It's many years since I've thought about Paul Jaminet's ideas.<br /><br />Different stones will have different aetiologies.<br /><br />The modern diet used for epilepsy management in the USA is execrable (full of seed oils) and I failed to become interested in exactly why it is so bad. The role of healthy user bias and DHA/EPA intake comes to mind re stones, not that I much love these nowadays. What I mean is that people who supplement fish oils eat a "good diet". In modern days "good diet" = gout. Maybe... And oxalate intake is high if you are keen on ground almonds and on spinach, as I was at the time without personal problems.<br /><br />The gout flares are interesting. The commonest side effect of reducing uric acid levels using allopurinol is an acute flare of gout. My own hypothesis is that dropping uric acid with LC eating could do the same. Dropping insulin might too, gout is, after all, simply part of metabolic syndrome. Strict LC +/- hiking might well drop insulin and activate urate mobilisation in the joints, which flares gout.<br /><br />I think trying increasing starch intake is a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Using n=1 is what many of us have done to trial things. If you are happy with Paul's ideas it will only take a few weeks to see if they suit you.<br /><br />Oh, palmitic acid. I love palmitic acid. Atherosclerosis is cause by insulin and massively progressed by linoleic acid.<br /><br />But then I am very biased...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-26130791239892632192020-11-02T01:38:15.019+00:002020-11-02T01:38:15.019+00:00HI Peter. Been reading your blog for years, and ha...HI Peter. Been reading your blog for years, and having retired myself(for 2020), gave me time after half a decade to come back to reading about nutrition. I feel like strongly ketogenic/low carb dieting has retreated from the scientific debate, but I feel you are probably one of the remaining blogger scientists who would still back it up.<br /><br />I want to ask you a couple questions about this.<br />The perfect health diet guys did a post on dangers of very low carb(Zero?) diets and addressed this question of renal stones.<br /><br />http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2010/11/dangers-of-zero-carb-diets-iv-kidney-stones/<br />Your ideas?<br /><br />I do want to say that the explanation seems plausible, especially as I have personally experienced bouts of Gout during phases of lengthened hypocaloric eating or trekking while eating low carb.<br />I also want to ask you about whether palmitic acid is atherosclerotic regardless of whether that atherosclerosis is a risk. Finally what is your take on gastrointestinal cancers on the optimal diet. PHD thinks its a deficiency of mucin production.<br />For now I am sticking to low grains/ saturated fats but thinking of switching to more starches soon<br /><br /><br />Would love for you to weigh in.Amir Timurhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12212341982542201335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-61150909148345050702016-05-11T08:13:04.798+00:002016-05-11T08:13:04.798+00:00Hi Unknown,
It's been a bit of a battle to st...Hi Unknown,<br /><br />It's been a bit of a battle to stay out of ketosis, especially as I've retired and have enormous scope for exercise, which I've always enjoyed though I've not been to a gym since my teens.<br /><br />So now I spend quite a lot of time in ketosis and if I refuel after a 50 mile bike ride using double cream my urinary acetoacetate looks like 16mmol/l, though in reality it's probably under 10mmol/l. Urinary sticks grossly overestimate, but then BHB is usually about 4 times the AA level so even a guestimate of 10mmol/l AA is a LOT of ketones...<br /><br />So I'm not strict about trying to avoid ketosis any more. Not worrying seems the best advice, unless it's about blood glucose.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-20357176113131446182016-05-10T19:53:06.073+00:002016-05-10T19:53:06.073+00:00Peter,
Sorry to activate comments on such an old ...Peter,<br /><br />Sorry to activate comments on such an old post, but I was wondering how you avoid ketosis on such a low-carbohydrate diet? Do you eat more carbohydrate than the amount prescribed by Dr. Kwasniewski? I came across this article because I have WPW.<br /><br />Thank you for your time.<br />Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15041354967818316284noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-327221540161092042014-01-21T18:52:38.667+00:002014-01-21T18:52:38.667+00:00Hi Olga,
I don't read terriby much on the net...Hi Olga,<br /><br />I don't read terriby much on the net on specific dietary advice sites, so I don't know the subtleties. If you go back to the old timers of LC Lutz had a very sensible approach. He used 70g/d of carbs, so 100g/d is not so very different, especially if you feel driven to exercise. If you are diabetic then 100g/d will, I agree, be catastrophic. If you run permanently on 100g/d when you are not currently diabetic you are betting that you will not become diabetic in the next 30 years. Obviously on an SAD like diet you WILL develop insulin resistance over the next 30 years. Will this happen on 100g/d of real-ish Food? Will it happen on 30g/d of real Food?<br /><br />Ask me in 30 years time...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-44834763704844452002014-01-20T13:45:58.124+00:002014-01-20T13:45:58.124+00:00Hi Peter,
I was wondering what your thoughts are ...Hi Peter,<br /><br />I was wondering what your thoughts are on the Jaminets book "the perfect health diet" and their concept of safe starches. They suggest, that as long as you're not diabetic, you can eat up to 100 g of either, rice, potatoes, yams, or any other starchy fruit or vegetable. They also recommend about 50 g of protein, and most of the dietary calories should come from saturated fat. I guess it's still considered to be low carb, but would obviously keep you out of ketogenesis most of the day. Any comments would be appreciated.<br /><br />Here is their website: http://perfecthealthdiet.com/the-diet/<br />Olgahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15346661892269510469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-30344043093371099172013-12-04T22:16:39.253+00:002013-12-04T22:16:39.253+00:00Oddly enough it was only an hour ago that I picked...Oddly enough it was only an hour ago that I picked up my copy of "The Ketogenic Diet" and browsed the recipes. Infant formula is VERY, VERY, VERY heavily biased towards omega 6 PUFA. Like very biased. The Protons thread says this is bad. The clinical result is occasional uroliths and occasional fulminating pancreatitis. The older child recipes are mostly butter and cream based but no conventional nutritionist would fail to substitute PUFA for butter...<br /><br />I feel the PUFA are the problem in ketogenic diet trials. What happens when you lower carbs without developing insulin resistance? Probably renal stones.<br /><br />Ta again for the UCP1 paper and the yet-to-be-posted-on C57BL/6 mouse paper. Nice.<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-89494326999575546502013-12-04T16:08:06.090+00:002013-12-04T16:08:06.090+00:00Hello Peter! I love what a great resource your bl...Hello Peter! I love what a great resource your blog is. I have recently, after reading Volek and Finney's book, and learning a bit more about mTOR, been restricting excess protein and including more fat. It seems to somewhat parallel JK's OD in terms of fat being the fuel of choice. Their emphasis is keto-adaptation, long term ketosis, deep ketosis. <br /><br />Part of the "traditional clinical" ketogenic diet are the very forbidden seed oils. The issue here is "political correctness" --God forbid they raise your cholesterol with butter or cream. As was pointed out, linoleic acid is not so great to prevent tumor growth. Hopefully the low mTOR would help offset that insult. Ok all this for another topic.<br /><br />I am surprised that the amount of fat in the OD alone is not reason to be in ketosis almost all the time, Finney/Volek style?mtflighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15904999557050546982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-78464672852935764232013-02-27T23:29:24.816+00:002013-02-27T23:29:24.816+00:00Debbie, that's great news! Obviously LC is th...Debbie, that's great news! Obviously LC is the best solution for you. <br /><br />Do you take any additional supplements, or are you lucky enough to maintain optimal health simply from good diet? Zorica Vuletichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05793548904884383364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-85152488927052121012013-02-26T03:58:14.431+00:002013-02-26T03:58:14.431+00:00Peter
I have Wolfe, Parkinson White's. I hav...Peter<br /><br />I have Wolfe, Parkinson White's. I have been ablated. I had pre-ventrical and pre-atrial as seen on a heart monitor contractions during excercise leading to shortness of breathe and very heavy extremities. (It was very hard to move). I went on a low carb diet <50g carb/day, lost weight and do not have arrhythmias during exercise - EXCEPT when I cheat and have more than 50g carbs in a day. It takes a day or so to get back to "normal" for me depending on the period of time I cheated. This is a repeatable effect which I still have 3 years after going low carb and 4 years after ablation. This year after Christmas, I ran across the parking lot to my doc's office - initial BP 82/47 with HR 92; 10 minutes later BP 100/60, HR 72 - Christmas is a carby holiday. 75 days later and no cheating; I cross country skied over 20 miles, all above 10,000', with 4,000'of climbing, in 4 days with no arrhythmias, and 30# on my back.Debbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07679182135853111668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-57445366204124586252013-02-01T23:05:50.011+00:002013-02-01T23:05:50.011+00:00My focus is on mg at the moment. I believe that ...My focus is on mg at the moment. I believe that if I correct my mg levels then the Na/K will correct itself down stream. We shall see.<br /><br />I do notice benefits so far after a month of transdermal mg supplementation. I also injest the mg oil (chloride) without ill effects. I have also got a mg malate yesterday which I will also add to my mg. Nothing more though. I chose malate due to it's known effects on skeletal muscle absorption in particular so correct me if I'm wrong. <br /><br />For Na I use sea salt. For K I use ACV with the mother culture. I think I am slowly getting a lot better compared to a month ago. There are two things I am noticing more than other markers: 1. I feel calmer. 2. My skin pigmentation has seemed to improve/darken and/or even out in complexion. I am very happy for this since I rapidly seemed to have lost colour in December and was looking pale. *I also take vit D3 and Vitex too. <br /><br />Wish me luck for the upcoming months for continued improvement. It took a year to 'recover' and then on top of that I had so much trial and error learning which made the recovery a lot slower than it probably should have (no money for labs etc.)Zorica Vuletichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05793548904884383364noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-13991486441845927072013-01-31T23:19:54.385+00:002013-01-31T23:19:54.385+00:001. The diet in the study you linked to only lasted...1. The diet in the study you linked to only lasted 3 days. Adaptation to a ketogenic diet is (I believe, off the top of my head) 3-6 weeks.<br /><br />2. Insulin causes the kidneys to reabsorb sodium. When insulin is low, either from fasting or ketosis, people lose a lot of sodium. It's called natriuresis.<br /><br />3. When your blood pressure drops, as it will if you lose a lot of sodium and the water that goes along with it, the adrenal glans secrete aldosterone, which causes the kidneys to reabsorb sodium at the expense of potassium. This can be avoided with consuming more sodium. (Phinney & Volek recommend 3-5g Na.) When people on low carb or ketogenic diets supplement potassium, they are actually counteracting the loss of potassium from insufficient sodium.<br /><br />4. Low intracellular magnesium will cause the ROMK potassium ion channels in the kidneys to waste potassium regardless of sodium intake. <br />http://jasn.asnjournals.org/content/18/10/2649.full<br /><br />Does this mean that dietary carbs are necessary for good health, or does it mean proper Na, K, and Mg supplementation is necessary for a successful low carb/ketogenic diet?Wittrockianahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13553414919248310393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-70920104733665743062012-08-09T12:57:36.796+00:002012-08-09T12:57:36.796+00:00Paul, I don't really know. It's not someth...Paul, I don't really know. It's not something I've ever needed to do, last time I did a 48h fast I felt fine and the OD concept, to which I moderately well comply in many ways, does actually suggest the ideal pattern is 2000-3000kcal per day in one meal, two if you can't manage it all at once. I usually end up with three meals or two plus chocolate...<br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-23473598803595587472012-08-09T12:01:15.393+00:002012-08-09T12:01:15.393+00:00Peter.. This is sort of off topic, but related. W...Peter.. This is sort of off topic, but related. What do you think of fasting and intermittent fasting? Fasting of course leads to ketosis and probably even more rapidly in those of us that are fat adapted.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06225717340670519245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-14401311581506957622011-07-18T00:22:20.816+00:002011-07-18T00:22:20.816+00:00Forgot to click on 'follow-up comments'.Forgot to click on 'follow-up comments'.Melodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16765004925673883980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-27042721521118675022011-07-18T00:21:27.026+00:002011-07-18T00:21:27.026+00:00I myself am interested in the effects of ketosis f...I myself am interested in the effects of ketosis for athletes. <br /><br />I personally have noticed an increase in stamina during my physical activities. <br /><br />Have a safe move. :-)Melodiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16765004925673883980noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-64031140711137087672010-09-29T00:12:01.410+00:002010-09-29T00:12:01.410+00:00The abstract of the first paper was interesting as...The abstract of the first paper was interesting as the VO2 max increased and LT was shifted on the ketogenic diet. I find this in my own experience since switching to a LC diet. From most long distance runner's perspective a LC diet is ludicrous and the only way to enhance VO2 max is through aerobic conditioning. <br /><br />Even more tickling is that the Kenyan runners from the Maasi tribe that were on a traditional LC milk, meat, and blood diet were some of the greatest runners the country produced with long careers while the rest of the running world was and still is "carbo loading". Interestingly since the tribe has consumed more and more corn while some of their athletes reach the top quickly they also quickly burn out just as quickly.Edward Edmondshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12959192296683716939noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-34899004093323718262009-12-02T18:17:07.194+00:002009-12-02T18:17:07.194+00:00This is a great post, as usual! Very interesting ...This is a great post, as usual! Very interesting (applicable) to me. <br /><br />As you may remember a friend of mine who went on the Protein Sparing Modified Fast, felt the abnormal rhythm and was diagnosed with WPW (and had subsequent ablation surgery).<br /><br />I myself have experienced the benign PJC: Premature (AV) Junctional Contractions. <br /><br />From experience, I thought they happened during ketosis, and possibly they do at the beginning.. but I've also experienced them a day or so after going to high carb from low carb (regimen slippage: pizza time or visiting a SAD restaurant chain). In these cases, magnesium supps. seem to do the trick to get rid of them (or perhaps it is simply masking the time it takes the systems to go into homeostasis).<br /><br />High carbs = magnesium loss. Initial ketosis = potassium loss (magnesium too??)<br /><br />I've read potassium depends on magnesium as well... possibly an explanation to how high carb and very low carb may both be triggers?mtflighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15904999557050546982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-74996601280586960852009-12-01T10:08:37.000+00:002009-12-01T10:08:37.000+00:00Hi all,
OK, that's me surfaced from too many ...Hi all,<br /><br />OK, that's me surfaced from too many shifts and a (finally) successful house sale and with plans for a move from rented accommodation to our new home in about two weeks time before legging it down to Norfolk for an extended mid Winter chocolate festival. No idea how much posting will go on, I'll just see how it goes... I expect to spend the Solstice itself shifting cardboard boxes rather than celebrating!<br /><br />Hi Gyan,<br /><br />I doubt blood glucose level has anything to do with cancer directly, CVD is far more likely related to hyperglycaemia. Insulin is probably the driver of cancer and glucose is a marker of elevated insulin when the insulin fails get high enough to achieve normoglycaemia. Cancer with normoglycaemia is quite possible if you have a strong enough pancreas to pump out enough insulin to normalise blood glucose even in the face of an onslaught of fructose and sunflower oil. Making enough insulin to cover a starch diet without the hepatic and systemic insulin resistance following on from fructose/linoleic acid might well be healthy. But then you wouldn't have metabolic syndrome. There is at least one group, in Sweden I think, who consider the common cancers to be merely another facet of metabolic syndrome. I think they are probably correct.<br /><br />LeenaS, yes, too low is not good, at least on the SAD. I have at least one paper somewhere (it doesn't throw itself at me) in which very low fasting insulin was associated with some increase in all cause mortality. Elevated fasting insulin was worse, but there was a definite U or J curve, so common in biology. Of course quite how anyone ends up with a very low fasting insulin on the SAD is an interesting question (the answer to which might explain increased all cause mortality) and might not be reflected in a low fasting insulin due to a low carbohydrate diet... <br /><br />PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-38643427720794631942009-12-01T06:31:14.199+00:002009-12-01T06:31:14.199+00:00Gyan, this seems very possible. Or at least the lo...Gyan, this seems very possible. Or at least the longevity studies of nematodes (and others) seem to indicate towards this hypothesis.<br /><br />However, optimum might not be "the lowest possible insulin levels" but just the "opimally low" or "low enough" levels?LeenaShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09565398001624904475noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-20884483723187400952009-12-01T05:58:53.724+00:002009-12-01T05:58:53.724+00:00So the association between glucose level and cance...So the association between glucose level and cancer exists. But does the correlation also exist between insulin level and cancer?Gyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941686166886986037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-55402818653160880352009-11-30T20:20:39.131+00:002009-11-30T20:20:39.131+00:00Gyan,
Diabetics are at increased risk for many c...Gyan, <br /><br />Diabetics are at increased risk for many cancers, a simple google search will reveal studies on this. Also, while the Masai consume a lot of fermented milk, they also consumed a good bit of sweet (fresh) milk, full of lactose, so I don't they were in ketosis with the other carbs they got from grains. Lactose in whole milk doesn't seem to be as harmful as other sugars.zachhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05334525584242029389noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-51326870741774737232009-11-30T11:20:51.417+00:002009-11-30T11:20:51.417+00:00@Gyan
Diabetic patients have an increased risk of...@Gyan<br /><br />Diabetic patients have an increased risk of most forms of cancer.<br /><br />Type 2 Diabetes major risk factor for cancer:<br />http://www.foodconsumer.org/newsite/Non-food/Disease/type_2_diabetes_major_risk_factor_for_cancer_201120090619.html<br /><br />Diabetes linked to bowel cancer:<br />http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3772815.stm<br /><br /> Diabetes increases cancer mortality risk<br />http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/16/healthmag.diabetes.cancer.death/index.htmlSorinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13554577977111966546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-41981586687808954892009-11-30T11:11:53.802+00:002009-11-30T11:11:53.802+00:00Gyan,
Masai diets are high protein and high fat bu...Gyan,<br />Masai diets are high protein and high fat but they are not ketogenic. A Masai warrior would typically consume 150-200g/day of lactose from milk. Young and old Masai also eat grains.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-18639682408719041152009-11-30T06:16:15.935+00:002009-11-30T06:16:15.935+00:001) Are there no studies on these questions for Inu...1) Are there no studies on these questions for Inuit and Masai populations? <br />FBG, insulin levels, etc.<br /><br />2) Cancer does not seem to be in the diabetic-heart -kidney-pancreas continuum. Many people with normal sugar levels do develop cancer and most diabetic never develop it.<br />Is it known that people with metabolic syndrome develop cancer with a different rate than the general population?Gyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09941686166886986037noreply@blogger.com