tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post863273888579474613..comments2024-03-29T06:45:45.894+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: Fasting insulin and weight loss and calories-in vs calories-outPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger91125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-39670684904875002792011-04-12T08:24:37.819+00:002011-04-12T08:24:37.819+00:00@Jordan
http://jp.physoc.org/content/548/3/919.fu...@Jordan<br /><br />http://jp.physoc.org/content/548/3/919.full.pdf+htmlPaul Simonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11117058676614554529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-35663794635825015772011-04-12T01:01:14.358+00:002011-04-12T01:01:14.358+00:00Splendid posts, Peter, got me thinking. Check me ...Splendid posts, Peter, got me thinking. Check me on this: Has Fructose-Fed Ratty elucidated what gets broken in Mets?<br /><br /><a href="http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/23/6/1036" rel="nofollow">Rayssiguier</a> found “magnesium deficiency combined with a high-fructose diet [in rats] induces insulin resistance, hypertension, dyslipidemia, endothelial activation and prothrombic changes in combination with the upregulation of markers of inflammation and oxidative stress” - metabolic syndrome IOW.<br /><br /><a href="http://hyper.ahajournals.org/cgi/reprint/23/6/1036" rel="nofollow">Balon</a> found that extra magnesium prevented the development of insulin resistance in fructose-fed rats and concluded “magnesium deficiency and not fructose ingestion per se leads to insulin insensitivity”<br /><br />Is this relevant to fructose-fed, magnesium depleted humans? Magnesium blocks calcium ion channels and so lowers intracellular calcium ion content; High Ca(i) prompts cells to overdo their thing – beta cells hypersecrete insulin and so on. Importantly, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11641262" rel="nofollow">Xue </a> found Ca(i) inhibits HSL and so fat cells grow fatter – in this view, insulin resistance and obesity are fellow travelers each mediated by magnesium depletion. <br /><br />Resnick measured the ratio of ionic magnesium to ionic calcium within cells and found it high in <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10983912?dopt=AbstractPlus" rel="nofollow">health</a> and lower in <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2045175?dopt=AbstractPlus" rel="nofollow">obesity</a>, <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8405745?dopt=AbstractPlus" rel="nofollow">Type II diabetes</a> and <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8507440?dopt=AbstractPlus" rel="nofollow"> insulin resistance</a> (not to scale):<br /><br />********************* Health: 9.8<br />****************** Aged: 7.4<br />***************** Obese: 7.0<br />**************** Type II: 5.6<br />*************** Hypertensive: 5.0<br />************Obese hypertensive: 4.7<br />**********Type II hypertensive: 4.3<br /> <br />This fits with <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7995625" rel="nofollow"> Reaven</a>’s finding that insulin resistance is increased “in association with obesity, high blood pressure and non-insulin dependent diabetes” and that the effects of these conditions are additive – is our degree of insulin resistance mediated by the ratio of calcium and magnesium ions within our cells? Then magnesium supplements should cure diabetes. But <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3071486" rel="nofollow">Paolisso</a> found diabetic’s cells accumulate less magnesium when insulin is high and <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1337457" rel="nofollow">Reddi</a> found they pump less calcium out when blood sugar is high. <br /><br />Proposition: these defects may be what actually gets broken in MetS and diabetes.Jontyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17359486435643820872noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-56811734085733372932011-04-11T22:02:45.586+00:002011-04-11T22:02:45.586+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.Hunter Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10377961119143580089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-73011189456615549692011-04-11T15:17:44.657+00:002011-04-11T15:17:44.657+00:00Great blog Peter. Nice info, nice insights, great ...Great blog Peter. Nice info, nice insights, great humor. I'd like your opinion on something: I'm about to lose more than a 100lbs (BMI of 61, non-diabetic, borderline high-pressure) on a diet that would consists of 800 calories of only organic butter (to prevent gallstones) and farmed raised eggs (since it's the least insulogenic food according to insulin index, see http://www.ajcn.org/content/66/5/1264.short?rss=1&ssource=mfr). Good idea, bad idea anyone?<br /><br />mpaixMOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05240836971139704334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-22324854188810343142011-04-11T15:05:26.117+00:002011-04-11T15:05:26.117+00:00@gunther: Atwaters factors were confirmed with bo...@gunther: Atwaters factors were confirmed with bomb calorimeter, but they are human metabolizable energy. IOW they are for a human calorimeter.CarbSanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17739915307890592327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-76865156940117948432011-04-11T13:56:16.574+00:002011-04-11T13:56:16.574+00:00blogblog,
Oh, you were talking only about sedenta...blogblog,<br /><br />Oh, you were talking only about sedentary, glycogen loaded obese western christian white males. ;) I didn't see you writing that. You said that "Most carbohydrates are immediately "banked" as fat" and I made some assumptions. Even in obese glycogen levels aren't "full" most of the time. Glycolysis is proportional to glycogen levels and is very active in glycogen repleted state. Yes the studies agree that DNL increases considerably with excess carbohydrates. But the carbohydrates that are shunted to DNL are very minor part of the total carbohydrate load. Hence adipose tissue is mostly triglycerides from exogenous fat source. Remember that you wrote "most carbohydrates" and I just couldn't tolerate that. There is no point questioning the fact that excess calories consumed via carbohydrates increases adipose tissue. But it is not (mostly) because of DNL, it's because almost all of the fat consumed is stored in adipose tissue and tightly kept there. <br /><br />If you have evidence which shows that "most carbohydrates" are shunted to DNL in HUMANS and in REASONABLE CONDITIONS I would be more than happy to see it.<br /><br /><br />BTW I would never suggest carbohydrate based diet to obese sedentary people (or to health conscious lean active people for that matter) for many reasons. My only point was that DNL is not very active in humans.simpletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07605940255598760525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-62325961800664186442011-04-11T12:56:37.583+00:002011-04-11T12:56:37.583+00:00This comment has been removed by the author.simpletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07605940255598760525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-13123877924615758042011-04-11T12:31:40.194+00:002011-04-11T12:31:40.194+00:00Hi blogblog. The Atwater system is based on bomb c...Hi blogblog. The Atwater system is based on bomb calorimetry performed by William Olin Atwater around the 1890s. I think most people agree (aside from the US government, of course) that it is hopelessly inaccurate and has nothing to do with how calories are burned or used in the body when the particular food in question is processed.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-68900806269600151282011-04-11T10:48:35.910+00:002011-04-11T10:48:35.910+00:00@Wolfstrike.
the pumped look from carb loading is ...@Wolfstrike.<br />the pumped look from carb loading is mostly water because each gram of glycogen needs 3g of water to be stored.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-35584072989239018772011-04-11T10:45:49.663+00:002011-04-11T10:45:49.663+00:00@Antero"
BS.
de novo lipogenesis is very mi...@Antero"<br /><br /><i>BS.<br /><br />de novo lipogenesis is very minor pathway even in very obese HUMANS (exclude rats and mice).</i><br /><br />I said that excess carbohydrate is stored as fat. In sedentary people the glycogen stores are saturated and there is very little glucose uptake by the skeletal muscles. The only other alternative to fat storage is loss of glucose via the urine. This is what happens in diabetics. <br /><br />You obviously didn't bother to read any of the papers because none of them actually support your argument.<br /><br />1) Acheson et al studied glycogen depleted athletes. Sedentary humans have saturated glycogen stores. Therefore this paper is irrelevant. <br /><br />2)Hellerstein mentions that liponeogenesis occurs as soon as muscle glucose uptake is overwhelmed by high carbohydrate intake.<br /><br />3) McDevitt says that overfeeding causes substantially increased liponeogenesis. <br /><br />4)Tappy says that overfeeding increases liponeogenesis and makes people fat.<br /><br />Btw very obese people are normally insulin resistant and have <b>reduced</b> ability to remove glucose from the bloodstream leading to hyperglycemia.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-39378874729959763992011-04-11T10:10:23.276+00:002011-04-11T10:10:23.276+00:00@Gunther,
Hi blogblog, I can't see an Inuit l...@Gunther,<br /><br /><i>Hi blogblog, I can't see an Inuit living in a place where he needs at least 6000 kcals/day just to function normally. And in his case, possibly more than a US solder, since he's exerting far more energy on a daily basis and without any of the army's amenities or technology. It just wouldn't be economically feasible for survival to have to eat that much on a daily basis. The Inuit can't afford to stay in bed for 3 to 4 months a year.</i><br /><br />I suggest you read Stefansson on how Inuits lived:<br /><br />a) they stayed inside and rested all winter (5-6 months).<br />b) they kept their housing very hot and humid (30-33C).<br />c) They wore extremely warm fur clothing.<br /><br />They were using very little energy to keep warm. <br /><br />The Atwater System is based on human experiments. It is accurate to within 10% or so.<br /> <br />The energy costs of metabolising different foods are only a few percent. This has been confirmed by very carefully controlled metabolic studies and radioactive tracers. <br /><br />Humans convert in excess of 95% of calorie intake into heat. No other mammal is able to lose heat more easily. That is why we are such effective persistence hunters. - because we don't overheat like most prey animals.<br /><br />To put things into perspective humans use about 20x as much energy per unit body weight as crocodiles.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-72528312243985358792011-04-10T19:34:37.461+00:002011-04-10T19:34:37.461+00:00When I go low carb and then carb up my muscles swe...When I go low carb and then carb up my muscles swell with glycogen with little fat storage...if done right.By right I mean that the longer I take to injst the carbs the better the effect.If I slam sugar drinks it all goes to fat but if I slowly do starch over two to three days my muscles get a ridiculous pump and I look amazing.Sad thing is that the super compensation effect lasts for a day at most.If I continue to eat carbs at high amounts I lose the pump and start getting bad hypo symptoms.<br /><br />So yes carbs can go straight to fat IMO.Wolfstrikedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01387635777264758245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-70402433105018383222011-04-10T19:24:51.445+00:002011-04-10T19:24:51.445+00:00blogblogblog said
"you are correct. Most car...blogblogblog said<br /><br />"you are correct. Most carbohydrates are immediately "banked" as fat and drawn upon to provide energy as needed."<br /><br />BS.<br /><br />de novo lipogenesis is very minor pathway even in very obese HUMANS (exclude rats and mice). <br /><br /><br />there is a lot of literature about this. like most studies these studies have some flaws, but the consensus is clear. to give you some perception the first study gave 500 g of carbs at once. result: 3-4 g fat made via DNL<br /><br />data is still incomplete, but it appears that DNL is even less active in exercising humans. <br /><br />Acheson KJ, Schutz Y, Bessard T, Anantharaman K, Flatt JP, Jequier E. Glycogen storage capacity and de novo lipogenesis during massive carbohydrate overfeeding in man. Am J Clin Nutr. 1988 Aug;48(2):240-7.<br /><br />Hellerstein MK. De novo lipogenesis in humans: metabolic and regulatory aspects. Eur J Clin Nutr. 1999 Apr;53 Suppl 1:S53-65.<br /><br />McDevitt RM, Bott SJ, Harding M, Coward WA, Bluck LJ, Prentice AM. De novo lipogenesis during controlled overfeeding with sucrose or glucose in lean and obese women. Am J Clin Nutr. 2001 Dec;74(6):737-46<br /><br />Tappy L. Metabolic consequences of overfeeding in humans. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 2004 Nov;7(6):623-8.simpletonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07605940255598760525noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-78492544861336989352011-04-10T16:26:12.784+00:002011-04-10T16:26:12.784+00:00I have recently upped my calories to 3K from 1500 ...I have recently upped my calories to 3K from 1500 and find that I am losing body fat now.Its not a lot of food when most calories are from fat either and is very satisfying for me.Could be that the body likes to have a higher metabolism and with keeping the insulin level low thru OD type macronutrient manipulation it behaves optimally.What if 3K is normal for a man to eat and is not excess calories when this man is not doing any type of excessive work??Wolfstrikedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01387635777264758245noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-17325418408858347332011-04-10T10:25:11.837+00:002011-04-10T10:25:11.837+00:00Hi blogblog, I can't see an Inuit living in a ...Hi blogblog, I can't see an Inuit living in a place where he needs at least 6000 kcals/day just to function normally. And in his case, possibly more than a US solder, since he's exerting far more energy on a daily basis and without any of the army's amenities or technology. It just wouldn't be economically feasible for survival to have to eat that much on a daily basis. The Inuit can't afford to stay in bed for 3 to 4 months a year. <br /><br />I live in chilly Normandy, but I still have to limit calories to around 2500 kcals/day to stay 69 kgs. Though you're right; in summer I find myself spontaneously eating less, while staying about the same weight.<br /><br />You make some good points about exposure to the elements helping to burn calories or to conserve them. My hunch is still that there is much more energy loss taking place through digestion than we are attributing. The Atwater system doesn't consider it at all, neither do any national caloric or nutritional guides that I know of. "Calories" as we know them could be a completely different world when we consider how each food is actually processed in vivo.<br /><br />I'd love to see some info on human post-prandial thermal output comparing the same foods with different preparation (raw vs. cooked, large surface area vs. small surface area, hot vs. cold, fermented vs. non-fermented, etc.). I'll keep your observations in mind as we try to figure this out though.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-83633629512342153702011-04-10T00:17:04.722+00:002011-04-10T00:17:04.722+00:00@Gunther,
Peter and I both eat about 3500Cal/day. ...@Gunther,<br />Peter and I both eat about 3500Cal/day. We apparently eat very similar foods with an emphasis on fermented dairy foods. I'm also a chilli and dark chocolate enthusiast.<br /><br />The main variable is that I live in a hot humid climate that is typically 15-20C hotter than Glasgow. <br /><br />Peter is more active because he won't overheat and is losing a lot of extra calories as heat. This can easily create a 1000Cal/day energy difference between the two of us.<br /> <br />I'm sure if Peter and I swapped cities and maintained out diets that he would gain weight and I would lose weight.<br /><br />In fact I also weighed 65kg when I lived in a cold (by Australian standards) climate.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-1495013952617070302011-04-10T00:03:25.117+00:002011-04-10T00:03:25.117+00:00@Gunther,
all the HGs and pre-agricultural societi...@Gunther,<br />all the HGs and pre-agricultural societies that have been well-studied have lived in very marginal environments. They probably aren't realistic representatives of early human lifestyles. Modern HGs, such as the Kalahari Khoisan, seem to be around 10-15% shorter and 30-40% lighter than their early East African ancestors. <br /><br />The East African highlands where humans evolved are actually quite cool. Daytime temperatures are always below 25C and nights are often below 10C. Being naked in a cool climate will cause a lot of heat loss. <br /><br />People don't become fat overnight. It usually takes decades. A 20Cal/day change will result in a 1Kg annual weight variation.<br /><br />Studies by that US army have shown that soldiers use only 2000Cal/day in the tropics vs 6000Cal/day in the Arctic to perform the same tasks. <br /> <br />Unless you have lived in the tropics you can't understand how difficult is to undertake any physical activity or even maintain body temperature without air-conditioning. <br /><br />A sedentary female in a hot humid climate will find it very hard to reduce calorie intake to the ~1000-1200Cal/day needed to maintain her weight. Increased physical activity isn't an option.<br /><br />Until about 50 years ago most people simply couldn't afford to eat more food or heat their houses to compensate for weight loss. They gained some weight in summer and lost weight in winter. <br /><br />Two hundred years ago the average European peasant had a very real chance of starving to death over winter. They would literally stay in bed for 3-4 months to conserve energy.<br /><br />I used to live in Ballarat one of the coldest and windiest cities in Australia with a climate similar to southern England. I only weighed 65kg. When I moved to subtropical Brisbane I gained about 10kg in the first year without any major changes in my dietblogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-56767308251609967162011-04-09T11:01:09.765+00:002011-04-09T11:01:09.765+00:00Kurt said...
@Blogblog
Nigel knows everything beca...Kurt said...<br /><b>@Blogblog<br />Nigel knows everything because he read it somewhere.</b><br />Yes, in your blog ;-p<br /><br /><b>Didn't you know that? Being a foul-mouthed sort just emphasizes how much he knows.</b><br />Tell Richard Nikoley that, because he drops <b>lots</b> of f-bombs. Hmmm, what's that smell? I do believe that it's the stench of hypocrisy - again.Nigel Kinbrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-22116479878663788632011-04-09T10:50:28.507+00:002011-04-09T10:50:28.507+00:00blogblog said...
Nigel, I will gladly defer to you...blogblog said...<br /><b>Nigel, I will gladly defer to your superior knowledge. I mean I only have *insert list of impressive qualifications here*</b><br />Yawn! Not another "Appeal from authority"? Did you know that Ph.D. actually stands for "Piled higher & Deeper"? ;-p<br /><br />Sorry about the f-bomb, but some of the utter crap that a supposedly well-educated person like you comes out with just beggars belief.<br /><br /><b>Nigel, you are in serious need of professional psychiatric help.</b><br />Pot, kettle, black, matey! :-DNigel Kinbrumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03368973941328529619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-8104763282641221842011-04-09T10:22:30.663+00:002011-04-09T10:22:30.663+00:00Hi Blogblog, these are interesting but they are al...Hi Blogblog, these are interesting but they are all measurements of people on the SAD in the West. I'm not sure it applies to a guy like Peter. I'd like to see HG bodyfat levels around the world to make a comparison that applies to VLC and other paleo oriented diets and lifestyles.<br /><br />Anyone with a correctly working endocrine system and lifestyle should probably be adjusting to most reasonable temperature changes, and they would eat more or less as a result of increased/decreased expenditure. Enormous swings in bodyfat wouldn't be seen on a Real Food diet, I should think. It just wouldn't be practical from an evolutionary standpoint.<br /><br />HGs have very low BMI compared to ours and most of them live in tropical or subtropical climates. And the logic of low temperature = low bodyfat would imply that the Inuit should be rail thin on 10,000 kcals a day, which is not the case, especially in Inuit women.<br /><br />Thanks for the info. I'm still holding out for a "net calorie / digestion expenditure" explanation. I realise it doesn't explain why you're more than a third heavier than Peter on the same diet, but there are height differentials and perhaps background damage on the SAD to account for this. You're also actively trying to gain weight while Peter is not.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-61682723980641398592011-04-09T09:43:14.758+00:002011-04-09T09:43:14.758+00:00@Gunther,
USA obesity map. Note the strong correl...@Gunther,<br /><br />USA obesity map. Note the strong correlation between climate and obesity.<br /><br />http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/fattest-states-2010-big.gif<br /><br />Heating dwellings above 20C doubles the risk of obesity.<br /><br /><br /><br />A couple of interesting papers - free full text:<br /><br />Obesity (2011) 19 1, 13–16. doi:10.1038/oby.2010.105<br /><br />Brown Adipose Tissue, Whole-Body Energy Expenditure, and Thermogenesis in Healthy Adult Men<br /><br />Obesity (2010) 18 1, 190–195. doi:10.1038/oby.2009.167<br /><br />Microbiota and SCFA in Lean and Overweight Healthy Subjectsblogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-90665181138934926722011-04-08T23:03:14.194+00:002011-04-08T23:03:14.194+00:00Gunther,
a high fat diet produces far less bacter...Gunther,<br /><br />a high fat diet produces far less bacterial growth than a normal diet. Fat and protein are absorbed extremely effectively. So you would expect a high fat diet to actually provide more usable calories than a SAD.<br /><br />VLC diets promote fat utilisation. This means more movement and more body heat. In turn this means feeling hotter and wearing less clothing and keeping rooms cooler. <br /><br />The skin radiates heat at any temperature below 34C. So unless Peter has his house and workplace like a tropical greenhouse he will be losing a great deal of heat.<br /><br />I live in a subtropical climate where the summer temperature averages around 33C and 80% humidity. This induces extreme lethargy because any muscle activity - even gentle walking - causes severe overheating. <br /> <br />I eat a virtually identical diet to Peter. Yet I weigh 82Kg. Arguably the main difference is that I don't expend anywhere as much energy on physical activity or heat loss due to living in a hot humid climate. <br /><br />I have a few Irish friends working in Australia. They are 10-20% lighter than the locals despite a similar diet. However these Irish people wear less clothing and keep their houses far colder than we locals do.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-73284578639300998342011-04-08T15:30:42.256+00:002011-04-08T15:30:42.256+00:00Hi blogblog, the climate thing is certainly releva...Hi blogblog, the climate thing is certainly relevant, but Peter was this weight before he moved to Glasgow, and in any case I would think his office and home are kept in fairly livable conditions or he'd have a tough professional and social life. :-)<br /><br />I'm thinking the enormous amount of work devoted to the breakdown, fighting of bacteria and bacterial waste products which the body has to do for many hours after eating a whole bunch of highly fermented cream may be a factor, in addition to the low baseline insulin Peter's got between mealtimes. After we factor out the calories devoted to actual digestion, he may not actually be eating as much as 3000-3500 kcals a day.<br /><br />Just an idea. Stone at will if its ridiculous.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-77429052033528036892011-04-08T10:28:50.123+00:002011-04-08T10:28:50.123+00:00Gunther,
fat inhibits the growth of most gut bacte...Gunther,<br />fat inhibits the growth of most gut bacteria. That is why a cat can turn a 450g can of cat food into one very small stool. <br /><br />I'm guessing Peter is actually burning a lot of energy just to keep warm in the cold Glasgow climate.<br /><br />Metabolism is only 20% efficient so it is easy to increase calorie consumption by a huge margin just by keeping cool. Polar explorers need about 6000Cal/day to maintain their weight.<br /><br />Traditional Inuits kept their housing at about 30-32C in winter. They also wore extremely warm fur clothing. This would have saved a huge amount of food energy. <br /><br />In hot humid climates it is virtually impossible to lose heat. This is possibly why obesity is far more prevalent in hot places like Mexico, southern US, Micronesia and Australia than in cold climates like Finland, Korea and Japan.blogbloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18029519906193388609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-89390511389095072002011-04-07T18:00:46.776+00:002011-04-07T18:00:46.776+00:00In other words, the higher the level of exogenous ...In other words, the higher the level of exogenous processing for a food, the higher its "caloric content", in a way. <br /><br />It kind of adds calories when you "digest" your food before eating. I wonder if this applies to dairy, at least when heavily fermented or raw.gunther gathererhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15361732213105267048noreply@blogger.com