tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post9142528460902331365..comments2024-03-27T22:57:00.742+00:00Comments on Hyperlipid: AGE RAGE and ALE: VLDL degradation and KraussPeterhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-18182987443915077552008-08-21T01:47:00.000+00:002008-08-21T01:47:00.000+00:00"PS why don't the innuit die like flies from cance..."PS why don't the innuit die like flies from cancer with omega 3 PUFA intake at over 15 grams per day?"<BR/><BR/>They do age at an accelerated rate, according to Stefansson. The women were sometimes grandmothers before age 23. They looked as old at 60 as American women at 80. All of these are predictable side effects of the high-PUFA diet they ate. They also had bleeding problems. They would suffer nose-bleeds lasting for days and leaving them debilitated. Also bleeding strokes and hemorrhages.<BR/><BR/>I don't look at death from a single cause as being very meaningful. One of the problems with Ancel Keys was that he did. He looked at the death rate from heart disease, but didn't consider that something might lower your heart disease deaths while at the same time increasing death from cancer, suicide, accidents, and so forth. That's exactly what happens when you tell people to cut out the saturated fat and eat lots of PUFA.<BR/><BR/>If you don't like Ray Peat's style, try Nutri-Spec. Gary Schenker is as opposed to PUFAs as Ray Peat and he says much the same things, that all PUFAs are toxic, esp omega-3.<BR/><BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2005-11.html<BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2005-12.html<BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2006-01.html<BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2006-02.html<BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2006-03.html<BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2006-04.html<BR/>http://www.nutri-spec.net/nl/2006-05.html<BR/><BR/>BruceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-36076157655051606462008-08-20T14:45:00.000+00:002008-08-20T14:45:00.000+00:00Marco,I suspect that foods grown wild in habitable...Marco,<BR/><BR/>I suspect that foods grown wild in habitable environments will support humans. If not, no one would live there (non habitable...). Once you start farming that's another matter. Farming means plants growing where they might not have grown, year after year... In the high alps (iodine deficiency) I guess there were no settled humans until dairying of the high meadows was developed...<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-76821080923163034262008-08-20T14:08:00.000+00:002008-08-20T14:08:00.000+00:00Chainey, The guard in Hogan's Heroes was named Sch...Chainey, <BR/><BR/>The guard in Hogan's Heroes was named Schultz.<BR/><BR/>Peter,<BR/><BR/>I'll take my place in the corner with Chainey now.<BR/><BR/>:-)Annahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17033443643442246531noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-20828645781359648692008-08-20T11:40:00.000+00:002008-08-20T11:40:00.000+00:00Now Chainey, we're talking post-endoplasmic reticu...Now Chainey, we're talking post-endoplasmic reticulum presecretory proteolysis here.<BR/><BR/>I get the impression you're not taking this seriously. Black mark. There's the chair in the corner, you know where the hat is...Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-37554002489067329982008-08-20T10:15:00.000+00:002008-08-20T10:15:00.000+00:00Very interesting, Alex. So, about cancer, it's the...Very interesting, Alex. <BR/><BR/>So, about cancer, it's the combination of PUFAs (especially n-6) and glucose. <BR/><BR/>That could explain why both Inuit (lack of glucose) and Kitavans (lack of n-6: not so much fat, mostly saturated, they eat tubers, coconut and fish) are/were free of cancer.<BR/><BR/>I'm surely oversimplifying here (and possibly going to take the second bad mark by Peter...) , but could they be both partially protected by the high intake of Vitamin D (Kitavans from the sun/fish and Inuit from the fish)?<BR/><BR/>Another point is quite interesting: the relationship between iodine and cancer. <BR/><BR/>I'm pretty well convinced it requires another post in the future, but... I came across an Italian researcher.<BR/><BR/>http://web.tiscali.it/iodio/Documenti/Evolution.pdf<BR/>(Evolution of dietary antioxidants: Role of Iodine)<BR/><BR/>http://web.tiscali.it/iodio/index.html<BR/><BR/>Back to Kitavans and Inuit.<BR/><BR/>Do the Kitavans get all the iodine from their foods? Probably yes as they live on an island and eat fish or products from fields non-intensively farmed.<BR/><BR/>Did the Inuit get all the iodine from their foods? Probably yes, before the transition to non-Inuit foods.<BR/><BR/>(Am J Clin Nutr. 2005 Mar;81(3):656-63.<BR/>Changes in iodine excretion in 50-69-y-old denizens of an Arctic society in transition and iodine excretion as a biomarker of the frequency of consumption of traditional Inuit foods.<BR/>Andersen S, Hvingel B, Kleinschmidt K, Jorgensen T, Laurberg P.<BR/>Department of Endocrinology and Medicine, Aalborg Hospital, Aarhus University Hospital, Denmark and Surgery, Queen Ingrids Hospital, Nuuk, Greenland.<BR/><BR/>CONCLUSIONS: Circumpolar non-Inuit are at risk of iodine deficiency. Departure from the traditional Inuit diet lowers iodine intake, which should be monitored in Arctic societies. Urinary iodine excretion may be a useful biomarker of traditional Inuit food frequency.).<BR/><BR/>p.s.:<BR/>Sorry, Peter, for my "having too many irons in the fire" (does it have a sense in English?) and for my always being OFF TOPIC.marcohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06947136650432633637noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-87172639614436547162008-08-20T07:56:00.000+00:002008-08-20T07:56:00.000+00:00Hi Westie,We'll get on to this in the post on Figu...Hi Westie,<BR/><BR/>We'll get on to this in the post on Figure 1 of Krauss' commentary. It's interesting and true. You want to see what it does to glucose homeostasis too.<BR/><BR/>Peter<BR/><BR/>PS alcohol researchers, some of them, know a great deal about insulin and ketones. The hepatic effects of alcohol are indistinguishable from those of fructose...Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-26672227467414024682008-08-20T07:42:00.000+00:002008-08-20T07:42:00.000+00:00Have you read this review about alcohol&liver ...Have you read this review about alcohol&liver disease?<BR/><BR/>This is from "Hepatology. 1998 Oct;28(4):901-5; Dietary Fat and Alcoholic Liver Disease"<BR/><BR/>"The whole spectrum of alcoholic liver disease, including fatty liver, necrosis, inflammation, and fibrosis, is reproduced in rats fed polyunsaturated triglycerides in the form of fish oil with continuous intragastric administration of ethanol. Such an extent of injury does not occur when the animals are fed saturated fat with the ethanol. In addition, the injury can be reversed after ethanol discontinuation by feeding a saturated, but not an unsaturated, fat diet."<BR/><BR/>Quite interesting...Pasihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03601391658285869058noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-21132299781234323042008-08-20T06:14:00.000+00:002008-08-20T06:14:00.000+00:00Wasn't Krauss the name of the guard on Hogan's Her...Wasn't Krauss the name of the guard on <I>Hogan's Heroes</I>?<BR/><BR/>"I know noooothhhhhinnnnggg!".^https://www.blogger.com/profile/14209117357558394101noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-65711403024929540062008-08-20T04:37:00.000+00:002008-08-20T04:37:00.000+00:00Hi Alex,I have "Mistakes were made but not by me" ...Hi Alex,<BR/><BR/>I have "Mistakes were made but not by me" on my Christmas list. I hope Krauss has cognitive dissonance, but maybe I should read the book first. Holding deeply held beliefs and having your research repeatedly destroy them must come hard. If he's really just defending his funding it doesn't make him much of a scientist, or a human being either.<BR/><BR/>PeterPeterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-60688113802688152562008-08-19T22:14:00.000+00:002008-08-19T22:14:00.000+00:00I wonder if Krauss is under a lot of pressure to m...I wonder if Krauss is under a lot of pressure to maintain his funding sources and professional associations happy (he has a close relationship with the American Heart Association).<BR/><BR/>His research clearly supports LC and high fat eating as a way to improve lipid parameters, but the people who fund him are saturophobes. So perhaps he walks the thin line?<BR/><BR/>Kudos to another great post, by the way.<BR/><BR/>Alexmtflighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15904999557050546982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-26191721995510463742008-08-19T21:30:00.000+00:002008-08-19T21:30:00.000+00:00Regarding the Inuit and cancer.... My gut feeling...Regarding the Inuit and cancer.... My gut feeling (bad pun) is with the [Otto] "Warburg effect" that tumor cells generate energy by glycolysis, burning off glucose (evidenced by a pet scan lighting up where the tumors are). <BR/><BR/>Incipient tumors restricted of glucose can't get enough of it to fuel mitosis. The lowered insulin levels of a low carb/high fat diet limit the tissue growth, and thankfully it appears the cancer is not adapted to lipolysis. Caloric restriction, involves lowered insulin, and so would be like LC.<BR/><BR/>So the way I see it, oversimplified, is PUFAs increase the likelyhood of cell damage, but the damaged cells may require glucose and insulin to develop into a cancer. That doesn't mean I want to play chicken with fate, deliberately increasing my carcinogen [PUFA] intake!! <BR/><BR/>Of course then there's the omega-6 eicosanoids some of which promote "cell propagation" among other things (inflammation, platelet aggregation, etc).mtflighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15904999557050546982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-74447214805103098062008-08-19T15:26:00.000+00:002008-08-19T15:26:00.000+00:00Hi Markus,I find Ray Peat unreadable, a pity becau...Hi Markus,<BR/><BR/>I find Ray Peat unreadable, a pity because he's possibly correct on a lot of things. He should supply more convincing references, easily accessible, and I might finish his articles. He has posted on this very phenomenon but with three refs (not the MDA one I found). Two were abstracts and one full text. I couldn't see how any of them supported his argument, so gave up on him. He may well have been correct, especially when you look at the roll of MDA in dropping VLDLs, but hey, we all have to be convinced. I wasn't when I read his refs. You tend to give up at that point, well, I do!<BR/><BR/>Peter<BR/><BR/>PS why don't the innuit die like flies from cancer with omega 3 PUFA intake at over 15 grams per day?Peterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14527788116058656094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-36840063.post-21782409286603337822008-08-19T15:06:00.000+00:002008-08-19T15:06:00.000+00:00have you heard of Ray Peat?this guy is very intere...have you heard of Ray Peat?<BR/>this guy is very interesting and extremely knowledgeable<BR/><BR/>he suggest a worrying trend in the recent rush to lionise fish oil<BR/><BR/>we know about the cancer promoting properties of polyunsaturated oils from seeds, but what about the polyunsaturates from fish oils<BR/><BR/>these are apparently much MORE unstable and oxidizable (did i just say that?) than sunflower oil for example.<BR/><BR/>i would like your take on his arguments if you would???<BR/><BR/>http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/fishoil.shtml<BR/><BR/>markusMarkushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00651993152569981306noreply@blogger.com