Back in mid summer 2007 there was this thread on the Bernstein forum. Mark, posting as iwilsmar, asked about his gradual yet progressively rising fasting blood glucose (FBG) level over a 10 year period of paleolithic LC eating. Always eating less than 30g carbohydrate per day. Initially on LC his blood glucose was 83mg/dl but it has crept up, year by year, until now his FBG is up to 115mg/dl. Post prandial values are normal.
He wanted to know if he was developing diabetes.
I've been thinking about this for some time as my own FBG is usually five point something mmol/l whole blood. Converting my whole blood values to Mark's USA plasma values, this works out at about 100-120mg/dl. Normal to prediabetic in modern parlance. However my HbA1c is only 4.4%, well toward the lower end of normality and healthy. That's always assuming that I don't have some horrible problem resulting in very rapid red blood cell turnover. I don't think so...
I spend rather a lot of my life in mild ketosis, despite the 50g of carbs I eat per day. So I can run a moderate ketonuric urine sample with a random post-chocolate blood glucose value of 6.5mmol/l.
What is happening? Well, the first thing is that LC eating rapidly induces insulin resistance. This is a completely and utterly normal physiological response to carbohydrate restriction. Carbohydrate restriction drops insulin levels. Low insulin levels activate hormone sensitive lipase. Fatty tissue breaks down and releases non esterified fatty acids. These are mostly taken up by muscle cells as fuel and automatically induce insulin resistance in those muscles. There are a couple of nice summaries by Brand Miller (from back in the days when she used her brain for thinking) here and here and Wolever has some grasp of the problem too.
This is patently logical as muscle runs well on lipids and so glucose can be left for tissues such as brain, which really need it. Neuronal tissue varies in its use of insulin to uptake glucose but doesn't accumulate lipid in the way muscle does, so physiological insulin resistance is not an issue for brain cells.
However, while muscles are in "refusal mode" for glucose the least input, from food or gluconeogenesis, will rapidly spike blood glucose out of all proportion. This is fine if you stick to LC in your eating. It also means that if you take an oral glucose tolerance test you will fail and be labelled diabetic. In fact, even a single high fat meal can do this, extending insulin resistance in to the next day. Here's a reference for this.
The general opinion in LC circles is that you need 150g of carbohydrate per day for three days before an oral glucose tolerance test.
I did this carb loading thing, then performed my own OGTT. It came out very normal except for mild reactive hypoglycaemia.
So, I often walk around with a fasting blood glucose of 5.9mmol/l and in mild ketosis, yet have normal pancreatic and muscle function, provided I carb load before the test. BTW my FBG dropped to 4.3mmol/l after three days of carb loading.
That then raises the question as to whether Mark "iwilsmar" and myself are typical of LC eating people, or an oddity or two.
This brought to mind the self selected macronutrient study performed on mice by Ortman, Prinzler and Klause. They allowed mice to select their own diet and, lo and behold, the mice chose (by calories, not weight!) 82% fat and 5.6% carbohydrate. Sensible mice.
NB These German mice should each be given Professorships of Nutrition at medical schools in the most obese nations of the world. Quite what we should do with the current professors I'm not sure, but I bet the mice could think of something.
Anyway, these mice are cool. The only thing that bugged me when I first read the paper was that they had a higher fasting blood glucose than those poor mice fed the normal junk which passes for laboratory mouse "chow".
This now fits in to an overall pattern. Elevated non esterified fatty acids induce physiological insulin resistance and a higher than expected FBG level. A simple switch to higher carbohydrate eating (in myself) allows the normal underlying pancreatic and muscle function to show. It also fits in with the FBG of 3.5mmol/l found in the carbohydrate fuelled natives in the Kitava studies.
So do I worry about a FBG of over 5.5mmol/l?
Not while my HbA1c is 4.4%.
Peter
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31 comments:
this is a brilliant analysis. I have not seen this discussed anywhere before but it makes lots of sense and explains why I feel more sensitive to carbs now than ever before.
I have not seen any other comments on your blog. I hope you have lots. I really enjoy your comments and your take on the often covoluted reasoning (?) of researchers.
Thanks
Hi leahys,
I put the blog up to help me keep my ideas/refs together in neat groups. My hard drive is chaotic. I wasn't really expecting comments on the blog but the few that are posted let me know that other people do see the world in a similar way to me, which is nice.
Thanks
Peter
Hello Peter,
A very nice post.
The term "insulin resistance" is curious in the absence or very low level of insulin but I know what you mean. Shouldn't we say: without insulin, muscle cells withdraw the glucose transporters and resort to burning fat instead?
Until brain activities kick in or short bursts of high intensity physical activities are required(either of which would generate a demand for glucose) one could expect a slow drift of BG up to a level high enough where other control mechanisms are activated or until the next meal.
Can it drift high enough to cause long-term problem, I wonder.
I suspect in the distance past when game was scarce other carb sources (fruits, tubers, roots and leaves) acted to induce some production of insulin to encourage glucose uptake.
Hi Johnn, I'd certainly agree, insulin resistance is probably not the correct term, but you would still be labelled diabetic if you took an OGTT in this state. It seems that this may be where the idea that fat causes insulin resistance comes from. Your comment about people eating whatever carbs they could get, I suspect even when hunting was OK, may have something to do with the drive to not get too far in to this state. After all, humans do seem to like carbs, even if it means burying crab apples in the ground over winter to get rid of the tannins, or soaking ground acorns in a stream for a week with the same objective. I can't believe we are driven to do these things in the absence of starvation if there isn't some advantage beyond weight gain....
Peter
PS From a few other places on the net it seems the rising FBG may be generic to very LC eating.
I've noticed that since I've reduced my carb intake, eating a high-carb meal kicks my butt. I feel like... my blood glucose is through the roof and all my proteins are being glycated!! Seriously, I feel warm all over and tired as if I were having a systemic inflammatory response. Although it may just be my overactive imagination.
I eat a meal like this once a week or twice a month, when I'm invited out for example. Do you think I could be doing worse than if I were eating a regular "balanced" diet all the time? I guess the HbA1c might be the place to look huh?
I know exactly what you mean. I was thinking in terms of serotonin spikes. But yes HbA1c is undoubtedly the place to look. Oddly enough I never really noticed this effect during the three days carb loading before OGTT
Peter
PS We just had a high carb (sugar!) weekend with a guest who did the desert cooking. My wife got really really sleepy post pudding and crashed for the afternoon. She had three isolated ectopic heart beats within a 10 min period today. I'd really have expected that in the immediate post sugar binge period but no, 24 h later is what shelled out! Generally the occasional "bad day" I accept and get on with normal eating afterwards. We're lucky it's probably less frequent for us than once a month.
Peter,
I just read this post of yours...and explains a lot of what has been happening to me.
An regarding my HbA1C still being high I will retest it in December and check it out...but regarding my BG levels your post explains it all.
I will stick to JK/Peter version of LC/high fat and in December will report results.
Thaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanls!!!
Robb Wolf had a post on this you might find interesting:
Gestational Diabetes
Posted on June 25, 2008
Hi Walter,
Robb Wolf clearly knows what he's talking about.
Ta,
Peter
BioEssays 29:811-818, 2007
Several protective cellular mechanisms protect against the accumulation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) and the concomitant oxidative stress. Therefore, any reduction in glucose or fatty acid flux into cells leading to a decrease in the production of reducing equivalents would also lead to a decreased ROS production and protect cells against oxidative stress. In the presence of insulin, FOXO proteins are localized from the nucleus to the cytoplasm and degraded.
An increase in cellular glucose uptake will lead to increased production of ROS. This in turn activates the stress-responsive Jun-N-terminal kinase (JNK), which promotes nuclear translocation of FOXO proteins, upregulating some important target genes including stress resistance.
Consequently, insulin resistance should result in decreased cellular ROS production. For this reason, insulin resistance could be a physiological mechanism activated at the cellular level in response to conditions stimulating ROS production and leading to the prevention of oxidative stress, and extension of life. Concerning the whole organism, however, IR is a maladaptive process in the long term causing a diabetic state.
Hi L Price,
If I follow the jist of this it's looking at insulin resistance as a physiologically protective mechanism. This seems very probable and it's our modern lifestyle which makes it maladaptive. Comparable the the CV response to blood loss being maladaptive in heart failure...
Thanks
Peter
About physiological insulin resistance:
When going low carb, butyric acid inhibits excess lipolysis but as You see in a case of diabetes insulin is also needed to prevent ketoacidosis.
What do You think about an idea that high blood sugar with low carb is also physiological and it's ment to give a minor rise for insulin concentration to cool things down and let all things go smoothly?
You mention your fasting blood glucose, post-prandial blood glucose and hba1c numbers, but you do not mention whether or not you regularly (or ever) had your serum insulin levels checked. I am curious if you do, and if so, whether or not they have fluctuated over this time period. I ask because I recently had a ridiculously high blood insulin level reading (which I was told indicates hyperinsulinemia, a precursor to diabetes), and have started on a low-carb diet in the hopes of staving off full-blown diabetes. I will ask to have my insulin levels tested again this week, though I've only been low carbing for a short while. I'm hoping that I will see a difference, but in case I don't, I'd love to have your feedback (if you've had your insulin measured) as someone who has been doing this for a long time. Might help me get over a "disappointment hump" if my readings don't come back lower just yet. :)
Need a little time on this one. Insulin drops fast though, 1-2 weeks and it will be well on the way...
P
Hi Auridicyl,
I've only measured my insulin once, that was fasting and about 4 years in to LC, high saturated fat and high cholesterol eating. It was 2.5microIU/ml which I think is about 15.0 pmol/l. It's quite low.
From the studies I've seen it's simple to reduce fasting insulin from 10 microIU/ml to 5microIU/ml in 6 weeks. I'd expect the higher you start the faster the levels will fall. Relatively few studies give you the insulin levels (it's not the easiest or cheapest thing to measure) and you have to trawl some uninspiring papers to get numbers.
But two weeks should show you if you are on the correct track. There is no other approach I'm aware of that is half as effective as LC eating...
Peter
I met Dr. Bernstein in person. What an absolute hero. Peter, I've been going through your archives over the last couple of weeks and discovering really great posts and comment exchanges from over the last few years. Hope this comment finds you doing well.
Best Regards,
Zach
"There are a couple of nice summaries by Brand Miller (from back in the days when she used her brain for thinking)"
I assume this comment is also related to when she used her brain for thinking when she wasn't getting paid in government grants to not use her brain for thinking....
"There are a couple of nice summaries by Brand Miller (from back in the days when she used her brain for thinking)"
I assume this comment is also related to when she used her brain for thinking when she wasn't getting paid in government grants to not use her brain for thinking....
Peter,
Sorry for the troika rapid post fest, but as I read through the comments and after pondering it hit me that Auridicyl is correct. Wouldn't in the physiological insulin resistance scenario you describe the main indicator regarding the difference between a Lowcarber and a developing diabetic (aside from the HbA1c reading!) be fasted insulin level?
Seems to me that a fasting insulin level would be so much more informative than a fasted blood glucose level? Not sure whether this is an appropriate question, but if given a choice which measurement between fasted insulin or fasted blood glucose levels do you think is more informative?
And with that, I'm off to spike my insulin levels with a bottle of red. Cheers.
Hi Zachary,
Glad you're enjoying the blog.
In many ways a post prandial measurement is more interesting, for both measures. A newly diagnosed type 2 diabetic always has neuropathy as they have been diabetic for many years if you look for post prandial hyperglycaemia/insulinaemia. If people fasted all the time then fasting would tell us useful things about their physiology. The OGTT plus pre and 1h insulin is a reductionist equivalent of response to a meal, it's useful but needs thought to interpret.
The other problem with insulin on an individual basis is I'm not sure what the lab accuracies are, ie how repeatable a measurement is, and even if it is accurate some people seem to show classical metabolic syndrome problems such as hypertrigyceridaemia on relatively low insulin levels.
But ultimately yes, a fasting insulin is useful but probably not in isolation or as a sole parameter....
Peter
Hi Peter! I träd somwhere (Taubes?) that insulin is very volatile. Is it sö in the boet as well? If so, does that have any bearing on this physical insulin resistance ting? Can insulin circulate Long after it has been called upon? If so, hos does that effect us? I also fall race down into the carb pit every other week, and since I Care abort what elevated insulin does to Me more than blood glucose, that might be a good motivator. My glucose is omkull mildly effected by half an Italian pizza these days.
Insulin vs hyperglycaemia as drivers of illness is a complex problem, I'll get to it one day...
How is it possible to have an A1c of 4.4 and a fasting glucose over 100? How does that glucose in the blood not cause glycation and show up on the A1c?
Hi Dr Will,
It's my morning value at peak GH induced lipolysis. Other times it's in the low 70s/80s.
I have no suspicion that I have pathological RBC loss but my intake of PUFA has been quite low for years and glycation seems to mark RBCs for destruction. Hard to glycate palmitic acid....
Peter
Hey Guys!... Found this article today cause I was kinda worried about my glucose levels... they where arround 105 - 110... but I am in a low carb diet and surprisingly my HbA1c is only 4.3%... Really Nice article and now... I am soooo not worried... jejeje.
thanks man, I was starting to worry about my FBG readings. I've been lo carb (hi fat) for almost a year.
I'm curious as to what you are getting for postprandial readings 45 min or even 2 hrs after a meal? Thanks!
Thank you for this article! Really helped. Not worried about a FBG of 100 when A1C is 4.9%.
How much protein do you eat? Amino acids have a glycemic index and according to some great people like Nora Gedgaudas and Ron Rosedale we only need about 50-70g a day.
Oddly enough 50-70g/d, via Kwasnieski. My main dietary indiscretion is the occasional protein overdose, probably not a great idea but...
Oh, Atkins Addict: I did some recently, mostly 5 point some thing. Just occasionally crack 6mmol/l
Peter
not sure if you will get this comment so long after you posted, but i just found it and was thankful.
quick question, what is the effect of a high carb meal (say pizza and beer) on the body if you are in a ketogenic, insulin resistant state due to a high fat/low carb diet from a health stand point? i can manage weight gain, but am i risking serious heath complications from the periodic mocha, pizza or beer?
perhaps A1C test would be best indicator? are there other tests that i might look into?
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