Monday, May 01, 2023

Fructose (07) Acipimox tangent II

Acipimox is a drug which keeps on giving. Before I get back to fructose thoughts there's this post and maybe another given over to acipimox.

This is the current paper of interest:

Overnight Lowering of Free Fatty Acids With Acipimox Improves Insulin Resistance and Glucose Tolerance in Obese Diabetic and Nondiabetic Subjects

It has good points and bad points. The worst is the fact that the figures are of such low resolution as to be illegible in places, especially numerical scales to graphs.

On the plus side the tables are fine and the data extraordinarily confirmatory to my biases. Today I'm just looking at the "normal" slim people.

Here is the effect of acipimox on HOMA-IR from an on-line calculator using numbers from the slim, non-diabetic group:









Despite these subjects not supposedly having impaired glucose tolerance the HOMA-IR score derived from their mean fasting values is >2.0 suggesting some degree of insulin resistance. It's not easy to be healthy even as a slim 40 year old in Brazil.

This is easily corrected by acipimox giving an HOMA-IR score of 1.13, well under the cut off for IR.

It does this by locking fatty acids in to adipocyte triglyceride droplets and keeping them there. This, fundamentally, is what acipimox does. It locks lipids in to adipocytes.

From the ROS point of view there is then minimal fatty acid oxidation, minimal superoxide produced by reverse electron transfer through complex I, minimal inhibition of the insulin cascade at the level of insulin receptor substrate so maximal insulin signalling. The end result, in the basal state, shows as increased glucose oxidation and decreased fat oxidation:




These changes are absolutely secondary to the suppression of lipolysis by acipimox at the level of the adipocytes.

I hope all of this is starting to sound familiar.

I can't get this table out of my head












taken from here:


Acipimox is reproducing both the low HOMA-IR score and reduced lipid oxidation seen in slim people who are destined to become obese. Ignore the comment about genetics at the end of the abstract. People with obese parents are going to become obese themselves via the action of linoleic acid locking triglycerides in to adipocytes.

Before obesity develops they have "excellent" insulin sensitivity because they are metabolically hypocaloric due to concurrently starting becoming obese via lipid *loss/sequestration* in to adipocytes. They will have to eat more [carbohydrate] to make up their metabolic needs by however much lipid is sequestered in to their adipocytes. They will only become insulin resistant once those adipocytes become large enough that lipolysis cannot be adequately suppressed by insulin.

Acipimox recapitulates linoleic acid's insulin sensitising and obesogenic effects, but only for 6 hours at a time.

Linoleic acid accumulates in your adipose stores (and deep fat fryer) and is available continuously for years making you hypocaloric [ie hungry], especially when you avoid saturated fat. As cardiologists have advised for decades.

Of course, if you took acipimox every 6 hours for the rest of your life you would get fat, wouldn't you? I only discovered acipimox in pre-Protons days when I worked from the simplistic, partially correct idea that insulin inhibits lipolysis to make you fat. Pubmed "lipolysis" "inhibitor" "obesity" and acipimox pops out.

BTW It doesn't make you fat. Basal lipolysis was another gift of acipimox.

Peter

11 comments:

lapis_exilis said...

Super interesting post! That medication sounds horrifying.

"Linoleic acid accumulates in your adipose stores (and deep fat fryer) and is available continuously for years making you hypocaloric [ie hungry], especially when you avoid saturated fat."

I can't convey in words how sad that line makes me. I'm pretty sure that this describes my personal struggle pretty well.
Peter - do you (or any of you smart people that hang out here) know what's the best way to get the LA *out* of the fat stores?

Peter said...

Tucker suggests exercising fasted.

I'd add in that exercise should be *only* fully aerobic, fat based. Phil Maffetone has a good website on how to limit energy sources to mostly fat, primarily based on heart rate and age +/- fitness/injury/training level. It works.

https://philmaffetone.com/

I have a lot of time for his method. Serious emphasis on "no pain, all gain". I currently exercise at least 5 days a week with HR under 130/min. Half an hour a session.

Peter

lapis_exilis said...

I hold you and Tucker both in super-high regard, so I'm gratefully taking the advice :)!
And wow, that's so interesting! I am currently training with a Garmin hrm, so I should be able to do that! Going to go check the website now.

Thank you! <3

karl said...

Just ran into this:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/novo-limits-obesity-drug-wegovy-demand-outpaces-supply

Wow!

So it is a Semaglutide - a GLP-1 receptor agonist. My understanding is it increases insulin secretion - yet helps reduce weight? -- ahh - Additionally, it inhibits the production of glucagon.

Interesting side effects:
https://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/semaglutide-subcutaneous-route/side-effects/drg-20406730

Sounds like some are body temperature regulation related? Could be uncoupling?

Sadly, we can't trust Pharma research, so jumping over to :
https://www.askapatient.com/viewrating.asp?drug=209637

Some REALLY nasty side effects - smelly gas and burps - sounds like it is effecting digestion?

,.,.
Anyway - the money moves, people are getting more desperate with their T2D - I fear long term consequences of these drugs. People are not getting proper advice - want a magic pill instead of facing the dietary addictions. Taking metabolic poisons is probably a poor method of dealing with this problem.

I'm old now - when I go out in public, I've never seen so many sickly looking people. This is an humanitarian crisis.

Tucker Goodrich said...

@lapis_exilis: See this: "The Seven Phases of Heart-Rate Training"

It will help you get through some of the tough spots.

I'll disagree with Peter a bit, I think some anaerobic exercise is essential, but it should be after you see steady progress for a while. Not more than 10% while you are still making steady progress.

lapis_exilis said...

Hey Tucker!
Just read the post :) I've treated myself to a Garmin Epix two months ago (at about 60% discount - which was still eye-wateringly expensive, but so far I haven't regretted it for a moment) - and started a running/walking program through the Garmin Connect app. It seems like I've been doing about right without intending to, because the program seems to keep me at about the right HR ranges.
My VO2 max went from a 32 to 36 in the past two months. Still meh, but at least it's improving :)

I'll definitely adjust my routine to do more HR-centered workouts now. To use Peter's phrase, I've got plenty of time for nice and easy-ish daily workouts, especially when they are effective!

Tucker Goodrich said...

Yeah, the Epix is a way cool watch, but definitely overkill. I have a Fenix 5 I got for free, and I use probably a tiny subset of the features.

HR training went from crazy back when Phil Maffetone was first teaching it to pretty standard nowadays, so most zone systems will wind up in the right neighborhood when they are around zone 2.

180-age+adjustments is just a lot easier to keep track of, IME, and is very effective.

Good luck!

Tucker Goodrich said...

And if anyone tells you Maffetone doesn't work for beginners, or for experts, or whatever, tell them they don't know what they're talking about and show them this:

"“My pace was 100 percent dictated by heart rate and I did not look at the time once throughout the race," Dannis wrote in an email to Runner's World Newswire. "I literally did not know what my final time would be until I approached the finish line. Seeing that 5:59 ticking away on the red clock was both surreal and hugely emotional. Never in my wildest dreams did I think myself capable of breaking 6 hours at a 50-mile race."

"Dannis trains via the Maffetone Method, doing all of her training runs and races in very specific heart rate zones. It’s an unconventional approach, but one that’s helped her transform herself from a relatively average runner to one of the best American ultrarunners in just a few years."

"National 50-Mile Champ Was Recreational Runner 4 Years Ago"

lapis_exilis said...

Hey Tucker!

Awesome article, thank you!

"Yeah, the Epix is a way cool watch, but definitely overkill. I have a Fenix 5 I got for free, and I use probably a tiny subset of the features." - agreed! All of these are overkill for most people, but I wanted the awesome mapping features of the Fenix/Epix line.
We live right on the edge of the Washington National forest, and I a. LOVE hiking, and b. have absolutely no sense of direction whatsoever (to the greatest amusement of my husband, lol). Hence the desire for a watch that can tell me that I'm an idiot blundering off in the wrong direction again, lol!

I did a 5 mi run/walk/run today, and you are right - it's really weird how hard it is to keep the HR in the zone. I was almost constantly having to slow down - but at the same time, it made the pace super sustainable, so I don't hate it whatsoever. I seriously enjoyed it, so I'm somewhere in stage 4 by your scale :) Looking forward to stage 5 :)

And as for the "And if anyone tells you Maffetone doesn't work for beginners, or for experts, or whatever, tell them they don't know what they're talking about" - I have a very robust ability to not care at all what most people think or say, especially about nutrition and exercise. Doing high-fat keto, and then carnivore around people like my neighbors and relatives makes one develop a very, very thick skin, so no worries there. I guess that I'm just very, very careful with whose advice I seek and listen to - hence asking here :P

Thank you again for taking the time to reply, I appreciate it very much!

Peter said...

Hi karl,

I suspect that if you spend any amount of time thinking about GLP-1 agonists you will come to the conclusion that they are a supplementary “add-on” system evolved to augment the acute effects of insulin in the first phase of rapid food absorption. Rapidly rising physiological access to calories has to be dealt with. So

a) stop absorbing those calories by reducing gastric emptying
b) get extra insulin in to the systemic circulation to get dangerous levels of calories (ie ROS sources) safely tucked away as inert triglycerides in adipocytes.
c) generate new adipocytes as an extra future storage location.
d) In a dire emergency activate uncoupling to convert extreme caloric availability to heat while simultaneously limiting ROS generation.

I’d not considered that they might also limit intestinal food absorption but you can see why they ought to. One result being v*gan grade flatulence and gut rot.

P

lapis_exilis said...

("V*gan grade" flatulence, LOL! giggling!)