Tuesday, October 01, 2019

Personal update 2019

Okay, personal update time.

Back in the middle of May this year Paul emailed me to let me know that Dr Kwasniewski had died at the age of 82. The possibility of his having had bowel cancer several years ago is apparently nearly impossible to follow up on but it doesn't appear to have been directly related to his passing away. I'd been meaning to post on this but never quite got round to it until Marco also emailed me with the same news last week. The Optimal Diet (OD) has served me well for about 17 years or so.

May was an interesting time for me. For a set of reasons not at all related to my own health I had been tempted to try the scenario of a paleolithic ketogenic diet, much along the lines of the Paleomedicina PKD protocol. I was basically interested in the level of practicality involved before suggesting it to a friend with a "modern-ketosis" resistant neurological problem. The practicalities eventually proved too problematic so the PKD option was never taken up.

I personally never expected that the PKD would change much for me.

I was wrong.

First, I stopped snoring. As far as I am aware, completely. Within a few days. I have a severely deformed nasal septum, probably traumatic in origin (if playing "toss the caber" as a kid with a larch pole, don't throw it straight up in the air in case it comes vertically back downwards directly on to your nose. Ouch). Both nostrils are severely narrowed. I never expected to ever stop snoring.

Second, the low back pain from which I got enormous relief with the OD, went. I've had three minor positional back injuries in five months but each resolution has been incredibly rapid with minimal analgesic needs.

My minor dry skin problems went within a few days, though this coincided with onset of decent access to sunlight in May, the Spring had been cool here in the UK.

Oh, and I dropped from 66kg to 62kg in a month, 11-12% body fat to 9%, estimated by lower body impedance on a set of Tanita home scales.

I carried on with the PKD.

So now I am stuck.

I really enjoy not being awakened by my wife to get me to roll back to sleeping on my side again, sometimes several times a night. I like having no back pain. I like the continued muscle strength development at the bouldering wall.

On the downside it is very socially uncomfortable. It has really brought home to me how utterly easy standard modern ketogenic eating really is. A bit of cooking and a few sweeteners and there is almost nothing you can't have within the diet.

Over the months on PKD I've added in very occasional cheese and a very, very occasional glass of Proseco on a Friday night, without apparent problems. Adding cauliflower or broccoli triggered low back soreness (I have to wonder if this is a nocebo effect, not exactly double blind!).

So nowadays I'm thinking about protein, GH, IGF-1 and insulin. I've always been cautious about protein levels but there are features about higher protein within a solidly ketogenic background that limits IGF-1 generation per unit GH secretion.

There are a number of posts there.

Currently I am, somewhat reluctantly, almost completely plant free. I'm no guru on this way of eating any more than on anything else, plus I'm very late to the party!

Peter

53 comments:

WS said...

Love what you do,If you haven't already, checkout Dave Feldmans work https://cholesterolcode.com/ look under lean mass hyper responders.

JustPeachy said...

Wow! Can't wait to read more about it!

Passthecream said...

It is a great experience to work out, or to stumble into a diet change that has such unexpected good effects. I remember when I first tried low carb and low pufa eating all sorts of weird things suddenly stopped being a problem, things which I hadn't known as improvable problems. In reality I think it was actually the elimination of some problem foods: sugar, vegetable oils and wheat rather than the change in macros which gave the most benefit. Drop grains and sugar and you automatically have different macros anyway. Roll forward a few years until a few months back, I was having a horrible gout-like problem in my thumbs at about the same time that I noticed that my vitA intake was very high. Just in case that really was a 'thing' I went on a very bland diet with lots of beef, no dairy products, no eggs and a bit of rice, occasional white cabbage and onions.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

Tragically(!) in retrospect I realised that this was more or less a meatier Pritikin diet without the fruit and veg, but --- it only took 24 hours for the gouty arthritis to completely stop hurting. Not just the thumbs cleared up but also a long term sore hip, neck(ancient whiplash), and the energy boost was phenomenal. I was genuinely hyperactive for about two weeks and again, lots of unexpected improvements. My second personal revolution. In retrospect I think it was mostly the dairy food that was problematic but I am not willing to change much atm since my elimination diet cuts out a huge range of problematic substances: oxalates, salicylates, agglutenins/lectins, sorbitol, tannins etc etc, most of the huge range of problem plant toxins. (And carotenes)

I'm really happy that you have found a thing which works for you like that. It is possible that our different approaches which seem a bit chalk-and-cheese (sorry!) on the surface have some absence in common.

altavista said...

Found this in a blog on the internet :)

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/search/label/Eating%20lots%20of%20meat%20and%20nothing%20much%20else

bill said...

I read Dr Kwasniewski's book Homo Optimus a few years ago. Dr. Eric Westman gave a copy to me. I'm sorry to hear of his passing. I loved his assiduousness. I wish I could watch his youtube videos, but unfortunately don't speak Polish.

Amber O'Hearn said...

Hi, Peter. That's great news!

Back in 2009, my then-husband, Zooko, had snoring and generally nasal breathing problems secondary to a septum abnormality that he had been considering surgery for at one point. Carnivore immediately fixed that, along with many other things that we presumed were physical / anatomical. However, this was long before the PKD existed and we were certainly not eating 2:1. While I think 2:1 plant free has superb healing properties, the plant free part is not to be overlooked. Many of the same results seem to be had regardless of the macronutrient ratio, provided it's not too much less than 1:1.

As another anecdote, soon after this one, a 20-something acquaintance of Zooko's with stage four astrocytoma (for which his doctors had exhausted treatment options and given him a short time to put his affairs in order) announced he was going to seek euthanasia because the constant headaches were too much to bear. At Zooko's suggestion he tried an all meat diet with no macronutrient instructions whatsoever. His headaches subsided within days and his cancer disappeared over the course of months never to return. This is a case that might be considered "too serious" to do without the strict keto component, and yet for him it was completely unnecessary.

While I do know of cases and people who definitely thrive better on 2:1, I think it's important to consider them as separable. I can't claim carnivore is socially easy, but it's considerably easier than PKD.

cavenewt said...

Peter, I know you resist thinking of yourself as a guru, and rest assured I don't think of you as one—rather, your ideas expand and inform on information gleaned elsewhere. I went low carb (keto at first) 10 years ago when I was diagnosed with a mystery autoimmune neuropathy. While it did not have any discernable effect on that condition, it improved my health and overall well-being in so many ways that I've never looked back. After so many years, the social aspect is not that big of a hurdle.

Lately I've been thinking about experimentally eliminating dairy and/or vegetables altogether. Rationalization note, most dairy I do is local raw grass fed goat milk, fermented, or Kerrygold butter; veggies are non-starchy, no legumes. Now I've got more urgent impetus to look into this more seriously because at the moment I'm waiting on biopsy results from a breast lump. At least I already have passing familiarity with Seyfried and Longo.

So thank you for this as well as your recent post on Ketones in Tehran. Now to go read up on PKD. Assuming this is the one you mean: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/paleo-keto/

Pierre said...

Peter what do you think of this snippet from Paleomedicina.

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/stone-age-diet-workout

Walter Voegtlin on Stone age diet and exercise – extract from his book ”Stone Age Diet”

It is well-known that carnivorous animals on a meat-fat diet, even though confined to small pens or cages for long periods of time, seem to retain their vigor, strenght, and endurance even though denied the opportunity to exercise. The meat-fed lion and tiger of zoo or circus retain their strenght and ability to make prodigious leaps. Sled dogs of the North are customarily confined by leashes or in small kennels during the summer and fed nothing but meat and fish. When winter comes these animals are ready at once for arduous duty; they require no period of physical training or conditioning before being put into the traces for eight to twelve hours of grueling work.

I have been told that hunting dogs maintained between seasons on meat and fat show this same retention of hard muscles, stamina, and vigor, even if put in the field directly from kennels. The Eskimo spends most of his time in practical inactivity during the winter, being confined in his snow-covered hut, eating meat, fish, and fat, rarely venturing outside (7).

karl said...

I'm close to the same place in diet - I do like my cheese and butter. I have a couple of hunches. One of the differences between humans and other apes is our brains. One hunch is that we were able to make the recent advances because of diet - our brains require a lot of fat to insulate neurons. Our brains appear to work better on keto-diets.

The idea that we are omnivores is based on denture leaves out just how recent our brains have advanced. So the question becomes - are we still optimally omnivores? I don't think so. When we look back to the recent past - meat-eating tribes were stronger - and dominated the non meat eating tribes. I think meat eaters get a survival benefit - perhaps we are in the flux of evolutionary change.

The other bit is we eat cooked meat - easier to digest. Better nourished brains make better hunters?

A couple of other bits - the diets of primitive tribes were not focused on muscle meat - but on fatty organ meat. Some times the muscle meat was discarded.

The first Europeans that came to the Americas were eating the new hydraulic agriculture diet - I read some history of the Dutch that were impressed by the size and strength of the natives. I think the diet of sailors was particularly bad - to the point of scurvy - but the castles I saw in Europe impressed me most in how low the passage-ways were - they were much shorter.

My non scientific observation of my vegan friends is that they look sickly - even more sickly than the general population that now eats even more carbs than in 1960. I think the skin of carb eaters tends to look a bit inflamed - and waxen.

,.,.
OT - I'm also wondering if cellulite skin on women's legs is related to diet - PUFA? They could run a study that looked for correlation between PUFA in fat tissue (Via a type of MRI ) and cellulite skin.

Norma said...

I’m interested to know what the difference is between what you eat now, Peter, compared with before. I understood that you didn’t eat plants, but you ate butter and cream, so is it that you’ve given up the dairy? I, too, have paid for the diet information from Paleo medecina and I’m puzzled that whilst the diet is ketogenic, the vegetables are to be root vegetables. As far as Paleo vegetables are concerned, this is from a national geographic article:

“Ancient tomatoes were the size of berries; potatoes were no bigger than peanuts. Corn was a wild grass, its tooth-cracking kernels borne in clusters as small as pencil erasers. Cucumbers were spiny as sea urchins; lettuce was bitter and prickly. Peas were so starchy and unpalatable that, before eating, they had to be roasted like chestnuts and peeled. The sole available cabbage—the great-great-granddaddy of today’s kale, kohlrabi, broccoli, Brussels sprouts, and cauliflower—was sea kale, a tough and tongue-curling leafy weed that grew along the temperate sea coasts. Carrots were scrawny. Beans were naturally laced with cyanide.”

On the other hand, as well as no dairy, cereals or legumes, the PKD also forbids nuts, which I find strange. We do know that tropical fruits have always been large, sweet and abundant.

I think the ratio of meat to meat fat is hard to get right and like most people, I’m not keen on giving up coffee, but I’ve found that sparkling mineral water is good to drink.

Bob said...

A few years ago I read an interview with Ronald Krauss discussing his findings that saturated fat intake was not statistically linked to heart disease. What stuck in my mind was his comment that most dietary saturated fat comes from dairy. Paleo excludes dairy.

Doesn't that mean a meat-based keto diet has a higher ratio of monounsaturated-to-saturated fat? Certainly for me it would. And it would be quite a change considering I looooooooooooove my butter, sour cream, and cheese. Sometimes together.

I wonder if some of the benefits of PKD derive from reducing saturated fat vis-a-vis an unsaturated source that is not plant-based. Of course, I can't see what's wrong with dairy fats, but then, what do I know.....

Johnny said...

Peter, I would (like Norma) love to hear what are the main differences between the Optimal Diet as you ate it and the PKD as you're eating it. You mention dropping dairy, cauliflower, and broccoli. What were the other big changes? I'm trying to figure out what is the most likely source of these excellent changes. Thank you.

Peter said...

Hi WS, yes, I’ve heard some of Dave’s work. I still am a serious cholesterol denier and the lipid hypothesis is essentially indestructible. Happily the cardiologists will eventually skirt around it. It won’t be abandoned but in 50 years time it will never have been believed.

JustPeachy, I’m not sure I have much to add but there are some data out there about IGF-1 that might bear repeating.

Pass, it has occurred to me that many chronic problems may actually be very transient acute problems maintained by chronic acute injury. Stop the injury from plants and chronic problems resolve in a matter of days. A common absence may be very important.

Alta, if I get round to checking anything in the near future it will be insulin and IGF-1. I’m still concerned that if you consume enough meat to chronically raise insulin you will chronically raise IGF-1. Which might be good to avoid frailty and bad if you promote tumour growth. So many questions.

Bill, I particularly liked JK’s ideas about temperament and diet. I do wonder if the syndrome of the millennial temperament is the responsibility of the cardiological community and their saturophobia.

Hi Amber, absolutely. What amazed me was the speed of the changes. I have to say I checked with my GP about my nose and the concept of having it re broken didn’t really appeal to me. He prescribed a steroid spray which worked but I didn’t fancy it long term. But an inflammatory process was clearly there on top of the deformity. Interesting about the astrocytoma… Initially I struggled with the need for so much fat but now just pour a cup of water in to the remaining fat in the pan with some salt and boil it to give a weak stock like drink with a centimetre of fat floating on top. Fine at home but eating out is butter as a fall back on your steak.

cave, I think your best introduction might be Dr. Zsófia Clemens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDPM8o9jcFA talking at the Boulder carnivore conference (well done Amber, Miki Ben-Dor’s comment about how good it was took me back to some of the amazing anaesthesia meetings I went to last century. Some meetings change your life. Sounds like your congress was a good ‘un).

Pierre, I think Stefansson made the same observation. Even without huge protein loading I seem to be climbing quite well. If I’m sensible and think about routes between climbs I can manage two and a half hours pretty well. Interestingly I climb best fasted. The wall opens at 10am and I generally get breakfast between 2 and 3pm on climbing days.

karl, yes, I’m much more conscientious about offal nowadays. We’ve just bought two dairy goats so eventually I might think a bit about dairy long term. Not sure. PUFA, can anything not be at least in part be PUFA triggered?

Norma, over the years I had progressively increased the amount of 90% cocoa solids chocolate I consumed (I have a lot of time for stearic acid oxidation) and of macadamias, a bit too high in MUFA but at least almost no PUFA. And a lot of leaf vegetables. Cream and butter were big staples.

We have a weed in the UK called Queen Anne’s Lace. I think it is the wild carrot. It wouldn’t sell at Tesco!

Bob, certainly my core source of calories on PKD is beef dripping, very high in stearic acid. In the beginning I worked hard to get raw suet to render myself but here in the UK the effort to find a butcher who will source it is enormous and I’ve dropped back to commercial dripping. The crispy bits left after you render raw suet are just scrummy!

Johnny, mostly I suspect it is the lack of plants. But I’m willing to change my mind if I find evidence to the contrary.

OK gotta get the house woken up, sorry if this is full of typos. A work day today…

Peter

Pernickety said...

I don’t know if you’ve seen this paper yet Peter, but I thought it might be of interest. https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-019-12368-2
Looking forward to your posts on IGF-1!

Peter said...

"Who ordered that?" Looks interesting

Peter

Galina L. said...

While humans are omnivores our foods are nor of equal quality. Diverse diets are suitable for healthiest people/

davemoriarty2 said...

Hi Peter,

I was just wondering what you think is the mechanism behind restricting plants and then becoming even more intolerant afterwards. Like I know you said that after going low carb, gluten caused an even worse reaction than before, even though you were healthier.
I'm thinking of going PKD to solve some issues, but I don't want to be stuck there, lest I want to eat out every once in a while, or am with family, etc.

Galina L. said...

I think people with cancer and autoimmune conditions should avoid milk proteins

David Johnston said...

Peter,
You can count yourself as the primary cause of me trying a carnivorous diet and losing 70 pounds. This came from your posts on the problems with wheat and other plants. I'm very much looking forward to your future posts on aspects of such a diet.

Norma said...

Thanks for replying, Peter. Yes I’m in the UK- thank you for the information. It seems to me that you are more pure carnivore than PKD. I’ve read their information and paid for the diet info and they do eat veg, which you can also see in the photos of their clinic. You can eat more than their 400g a day if you’re active. Many people report huge problems adapting to their diet, in fact not really adapting at all, some lasting way PST the 4-5 months adaptation.

I had serious gut problems for the weeks that I went carnivore and my triglycerides shot up, but I was still eating cream. Also I have RA, which though well controlled with stuff that kills B cells, might affect my blood lipids. I really wanted the carnivore diet to be a miracle. I don’t trust myself to get the PKD fat: meat ratio right but I will try again.

Queen Anne’s lace is big in naturalist planting and you can get the seeds for many colours. I’ve read accounts of how children used to eat the root of pignut, Conopodium majus, when hungry. I would never trust myself not to eat hogweed by mistake. Young hawthorn leaves were called “bread and cheese” not because they taste of either, but because they stave off hunger pangs. That and the bit of the article I quoted really bring home how little veg our ancestors had available.

Jay said...

Interesting!
Peter does that mean you've given up the dark chocolate as well as the cream?

Norma - I gave up all dairy more than 18 months ago and found the stiffness in my joints (due to an 'atypical RA' - only positive for Rheumatoid Factor not the other markers) disappeared after about 10 days. Gluten makes me ache but is slower acting whereas (accidental) exposure now to even butter can elicit pain or stiffness overnight. Not a nocebo effect because I don't do it on purpose!

cavenewt said...

Galina L, and incidentally Peter:

Re your comment about avoiding dairy...does this discussion about beta-casomorphin (BMC7) and A1 vs A2 milk have any bearing on your opinion?

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com/2010/03/butter-insulin-and-dr-davis.html?showComment=1269451207152#c182999795109297613

Most of my dairy consumption is fermented raw grass-fed goat milk (A2).

Passthecream said...

Peter --- it's a matter of working out what is a 'cute injury and what us not so cute when it's at home. When I was younger I used to smirk rudely whenever I heard the phrase 'liver detox'. When my wife was diagnosed with Gilbert's syndrome (which is not so much a syndrome as a loose grouping of enzyme deficiencies mostly concerned with glucuronidation), well I stopped smirking so much and finally understood why she just couldn't tolerate most solanums and some other things --- glucuronidation being a process whereby various hydrophobic nasties are made water soluble therefore able to be eliminated via kidneys etc or sometimes even made useful, including the stuff in those South American fruit and veg.

At our age now however a typical normal liver is smaller than it was at the immortal age of 18 and probably less efficient. Presumably the capacity to eliminate various nasties declines similarly. I suspect this is evolution's way of turning the elderly into tribal food testers. Of course glucuronidation is only one of many, many important enzymatic toxin converting processes but many of them are liver and kidney based.

So, what about 'cute?

(For me though I'm fairly sure ITDFS - cheese etc)

Passthecream said...

PS I still think the general idea of liver detox as practiced by ... is flakey, should just not overload it and let it get on with business wherever possible ie stop 'tocxing' it up.

Passthecream said...

An interesting feature of Gilbert's is it being associated with a significantly lower risk of heart disease. Why would a failure of biohazard removal be linked to that????

cavenewt said...

Duckduckgo not helping to figure out ITDFS...

Kajus said...

I notice that I need less sleep on the PKD diet and the pain in my knees is gone.I eat between 11 am and 2 pm. Not hungry after this. My problem is finding fat from animals. Wonder if gee can fix this by removing the milk protein.

Passthecream said...

"It's the dairy food stupid"
Self-directed, nothing personal.
It's up there with ITIS.

Passthecream said...

Kajus, probably not the right blog to mention that my own shift to a beefy diet with a few bland veg didn't include much extra fat than whatever was in the cheap cuts of meat, and I was still lucky enough to get rapid improvements. Ymmv.

I have a Fear of Frying inspired by Spitteler's ideas, the high temp plus the metal cookware, so I get big lumps of beef when on special and cook them in a crockpot - a cheap electric slow cooker. A piece of brisket or bolar roast is extremely tender this way and keeps me going for a few days. The water from the cooking has the soluble proteins and can be reduced to a tasty broth or stock by leaving the lid off for a while. Nice if you throw in a couple of onions and some celeriac etc. (Sorry Peter!) Otherwise just skim any rendered fat off the top and keep it for cooking and eating. The rest is still in the meat so none gets wasted.

Peter said...

Hi Galina, yes. I really like Miki Ben-Dor’s post on adaptation at http://www.paleostyle.com/?p=2131. We are all adapted to modern diets, some more so than others. My addition is that the process of adaptation is by the early death and impaired reproductive success of individuals. Populations adapt via the suffering of individuals. The process of adaptation is what we call pathology and the blunting of its impact is medicine. The fall back diet is meat, to avoid pathology (incidentally halting adaptation). I suspect you are correct about milk proteins.

David, I hope you have not suffered too much in the process!

Norma, Interesting. I had picked up that some vegetable were ok but I got the impression that they were for people without metabolic issues and were mostly roots. My wife’s crop of beetroot was pretty good this year so I do have the very occasional slice with scrambled eggs (using beef fat).

Jay, yes…

cave, I’m suspicious it may be to do with how effectively they are broken down. The pro-inflammatory response to casein is independent of A1 A2 types in the mammary gland to suppress lactation if there is no suckling for a few days. How much inflammation the casein might produce in a human GI tract might (guessing) be related to how effectively it is broken down, A1 might be more persistent. The casmorphins are unknowns re immunity but, as an anaesthetist, almost all drugs I use, particularly opioids, are immunosuppressive. Are endorphins/exorphins? Why not?

Pass, the whys are interesting but it certainly does seem that more stuff is a problem as you age!

Kajus, I wake every morning at about 5am feeling clear headed. I think for a while. At about 5.30 a tractor passes by (silage to a dairy herd?) and I get up soon after to start the hours at around 6am. In the UK we can buy pre-rendered beef fat. It’s not as nice or as saturated as raw beef suet but suet is nowadays a nightmare to get hold of. I managed for a while but the one butcher can only get it very occasionally and I can’t ever rely on it. Most butchers can’t supply it.

Peter

Peter said...

Hi davemoriarty2, I’ve not looked in to this but the phenomenon of oral tolerance is very real. It is the basis of desensitisation allergy management, both orally and parenterally. It has even been used for blunting severe peanut allergy in kids. Best description of the immune system ever? “It’s complicated”. Your concept of becoming limited in food choices is very real. I am considering the occasional meal out of PKD with some circumspection about the choice of toxins to ingest…

Peter

Passthecream said...

The Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney(Au) has a very good allergy unit and lots of usefull info at their website about food intolerances and elimination diets.

https://www.slhd.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/resources/foodintol/ffintro.html

I don't agree with some of what they suggest as a base diet but they have treated thousands of patients, my oldest daughter included, so have significant clinical experience. They probably do know what they're talking about.

In their resources there is a pdf about milk allergy.

https://www.slhd.nsw.gov.au/rpa/allergy/resources/allergy/infosheets.html

Table 2 is interesting, and the accompanying text:

"An important point about any adverse reactions to milk to note that it is unusual for milk to be the only food that is the problem. Milk allergy is commonly associated with allergies to eggs and/or peanuts (Table 2) and milk intolerance is commonly associated with intolerance reactions to soy and other protein foods and/or fruits and vegetables."


After starting a diy elimination diet I discovered by accident that I am allergic to peanuts. I can't stand them anyway but the increased potential reactivity is something to watch out for. Eggs ok luckily. Phew!

Bob said...

Passthecream,

Can you describe your peanut allergy? My impression is that "peanut allergy" is commonly equated with anaphylactic shock and death. My own peanut allergy is more "the entire alimentary canal" and very uncomfortable but not deadly. This is true of both peanuts and peanut butter. The symptoms are unmistakable and immediate on first bite.

I have the same reactions to pecan and buckwheat.

And yet, many years ago, I ate a protein bar on an airplane and only discovered after I'd eaten it that it was made with peanut flour. It didn't bother me.

Any of this sound familiar?

Passthecream said...

Similar. I dislike the taste of them but have never knowingly had a reaction to them before. Trust your food radar! In the first couple of weeks of diet when I had highly elevated mood and energy, consumed some mix with them in and had classic symptoms of itchy throat and mildly swollen tongue which developed slowly over an hour or so but went away very slowly too. Frightening actually. After that I started carrying some fast acting antihistamines with me but I don't want to repeat the experiment. My son in law has a peanut/legume allergy of the deadliest kind so I am aware of the danger.

Do milk and peanuts have anything specific in common, in their proteins maybe? Peanut proteins are very 'sticky' apparently - reactive?

Passthecream said...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4785306/

Betsy said...

Looking through your past posts for one to read today, I chose one about protein from 2018 because of this post and the concern about GH, Igf-1, and the possiblity of too much protein in my diet. I found this study that you mentioned in the comments: However this paper by Bielohuby: "Lack of Dietary Carbohydrates Induces Hepatic Growth Hormone (GH) Resistance in Rats" is interesting from the point of view of both drifts.

I haven't looked for it yet, but am wondering if you have any thoughts on the study.

Thank you,
Betsy

Peter said...

Hi Betsy,

I have that paper too and it intrigued me for months. However their finding is that low IGF-1 fails to cause increased GH by a hypothalamic failure. Under their most extreme keto diet there was low IGF-1 but no increased GH to attempt to compensate for this. I'm more interested in conditions where GH really is high while IGF-1 stays low. That is fasting, which imitates ketogenic eating, as Amber has suggested elsewhere. To this state insulin is the key. With low insulin you can have as much GH as you like, IGF-1 will stay low or drop. This looks to be a pretty good situation to me.

The paper is not exactly clearly written, but does have a finding, even if it's not the one I'm interested in. Catchy title too! Ten out of ten for that.

Peter

Betsy said...

Ok, thanks, Peter. That is good news. That's a relief.

DLS said...

so peter peter my 1,0 diet of rib eye steaks + yokls WHIT NO BUTTER at all (LARD FAT) WSNTE THAT BAD after all???? BAD ok i was consuming ANIMAL CARBS, regular store milk AND CHESSE, AND dark CHOCOLATE... but i was ripped! never touched cream, coconut, butter, LIKE A DO NOW.... im still riped, but by legs are busted ( synovectomy in the plans...) SO TIME TO GO BACK'... icea crema makes my fasting easy but i think is fuking me up long therm... btw, did 3 non consecutive 24 hr DRY FASTs.. my leg whit edema improved... but as soon as the food is back also the pain!...

DLS said...

i think i need to get back 2 eating pizza fasting and not givina a fuk! XD

Peter said...

Hi DLS, still going! I can see it's hard to stick with a self imposed protocol if it doesn't deliver the goods. Good luck with the legs!

Peter

DLS said...

Thanks...migth try paleoketoingit buti have tons of cream, butter, chesse, cacao, coconut... to eliminate first... few months ago i did A LOT of minced beef heart / meat AND it wascrazy. Infinite Energy rush with ni
O dips, like on drugs! But then developed acné and my sleep was shit.

DLS said...

What im doing... 2 "op" ice creams (lol)(77/88gr cream + 4- 5 raw yolks total / vanilla or cacao, 0 sugar) 2_3 xxl large cinnamon vanilla coconut scones with the egg whites (baked to hell) then a lot of minced meat, pork, chiken, mushroons, with buter /lard spices. Sometines i ditch the scones and eat a lot off semi hard + cream chesse ! 41 now. 62km and riped chest but my rigth leg Is inflamed AND the docs are cluless all my test are great! Im thinking casein / lactose/ oxalates/ = autoinmune shit.. but dont know if eating like Lecter is da Solution!

DLS said...

Btw 100%perfect skin now, look like 20 years old. But it migth be the hard dry fasts. Legs? 100 years old XD

Betsy said...

DLS, for your right leg is inflammation, check your ileocecal valve. If it's block up in some way, it can be blocking lymphatic drainage, too.

DLS said...

thanks betsy! going to look that, im doing lymphatic drainage massages with no success :/ my calf muscle is full of liquid and knee is fat with compromised mobility. ...no intestinal abdominal pain distress , fever, etc

Betsy said...

I am just now getting over very similar symptoms, but I also had extreme pain in my knee, probably from damage from a fall about 7 years ago. But lymphatic draining massage did help to certain degree. I have had to cut back to only meat, little bit of cheese, decaf coffee and cream (although I probably should stop that, too), and water. I don't know if you are familiar with alka seltzer, but taking that twice a day helped, too. One strange thing about the ileocecal valve is that certain foods that you would never suspect can affect it. You can try ileocecal massage, but for me, at least, I had to cut out a lot of foods. It's just a weak point that I guess I will always have to deal with. Chocolate, even if it's cocoa powder, maybe eggs and mushrooms, might have to go for a bit to see if it will help. I am glad to be able to walk normally, I am trying not to complain.

DLS said...

https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/intermittent_fasting_therapeutic

ok MY BS METER JUST EXPLODED. fasting is a PERFECT mach for keto, if this guy is not able to see that, then... what else is he missing? A LOT I GUESS. also, dogma much? "This is the diet shaped by your evolutionary past" and is the "only way of curing diseases" LOL the only way? really? now im having som serious 2ND toughs ABout a life of eating nothing but pork fat plus a tinny bit of meat @ and eggs... what about the omega ratios? pufa? sudenly its ok to dive in a pool of animal pufa?

@ insulin! glucose path... again irrelevant if im fasting

DLS said...


sodium? no need , everything comes along with the diet use salt according to "taste"
ok AGAIN BULLSHIT! IF YOU DO INTERMITTENT FASTING + KETO SURE AS HELL YOU NEED TO ADD A LOT OF EXTRA SODIUM! it seems this guys are total noobcakes regarding fasting...

Betsy said...

Peter, do you have an opinion on what the exact thing about Dr. Kwasniewski's diet is not a good choice? I am guessing it would be everything except the beef and fat, but I am in partial denial about giving up cream and coffee. I am reading about paleomedicina and finding it interesting. I appreciate your blog and your in depth research, although I will admit that I don't understand most of it.

cavenewt said...

I paid the US$35 for the PaleoMedicina diet information and watched the video Peter recommended. Some of it I like, some of it seems...screwy. Their objections to intermittent fasting/fasting are superficial and spurious, and not relevant to somebody who pays attention. And after 10 years of low-carb I would have a really hard time eating root vegetables again, although in this plan they are at least optional.

Their treatment is based on the belief that intestinal permeability is the root of all evil. It may well be. I believe that it's definitely a huge factor, but not the only one.

I'm integrating some of it (recent cancer diagnosis), because it reinforces what I was already inclined towards. I'm giving up nightshades and dairy. Hot peppers will be the biggest sacrifice. Hopefully horseradish is allowed!

Betsy said...

Cavenewt, do you mind if I ask what type of cancer you have been diagnosed with?
I can't eat root vegetables, but I guess if one wanted a bit of carbs, that would be the safest way to go. Right now any forms of starch bother me in one way or another.

I could see how giving up the zing of hot peppers would be a sacrifice in such a limited diet. I have been walking away from the table thinking something is missing, it's definitely not easy.

DLS said...

cavenewt stay strong! Fasting is good resource. If you are expereineced /keto adapted hard dry fasting migth be a good idea https://translate.google.com/translate?depth=2&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=ru&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://filonov.net/statji/suh-golod-effektivno SERGEI IVANOVICH FILONOV a rusian doc, same story 20 years xp, clínica yada yada some bullshit claims.some.truth regarding paleo ketoinit... I gave up cheese, butter, cocoa, peanuts. Kept cream... It has marginal casein and lactose (perfect is da.enemy of good) aded heart, bacón, pork, animalnfat to da protein...) Well see...