Wednesday, May 19, 2021

Of mice and men (2) In the brain

Tucker emailed me this paper. It's gold dust.

I have many issues with the paper but I'll ignore those and get down to the nitty gritty.

Hypothalamic remodelling.

There is normally an on-going turnover of neurons in the hypothalamus concerned with energy balance regulation. Feeding a high fat diet (high PUFA with sucrose, D12451) to mice makes them become obese and also shuts down remodelling of their hypothalamic energy balance neurons.

Here is figure 3c. It's complicated:

















Let's look at the solid boxes first

The mice in the grey box described as control were simply fed D12450B throughout the experimental period and have never been obese, haven't lost any weight and have normally functioning adipocytes.

The next three groups were made obese with D12451 and then slimmed down again, through spontaneously reduced appetite, with either a high protein diet (HPD), with D12450B (HCD, same as used for the control group throughout) or with F3666 (KD). Or they were allowed to stay fat on D12451 (solid purple box).

From the solid green, blue and red boxes we can see that being post-obese, using any spontaneous weight loss diet, produces some reduction in hypothalamic neural turnover cf never-obese controls.

We can also see from the purple solid box that staying fat on D12451 causes the greatest reduction in neural remodelling.

Next are the hatched boxes. If you cut calories involuntarily, on any diet, you always reduce hypothalamic neuronal remodelling. Whether you have been overweight or not. The effect is slightly less pronounced if you calorie restrict on non obesogenic diets but more pronounced if you calorie restrict on an obesogenic diet (D12451), hatched purple box.

On top of that you have to note that the effect of an ad lib obesogenic diet is exactly the same (bad) as calorie restricting on that same obesogenic diet.

If you are simply looking for a drug-able target you would want a linear association between weight and decreased neural remodelling in the energy centre of the hypothalamus. Drug the brain stem, eat crap, lose weight, sweet.

You don't get the straight line. It's a curve, like this:

















I don't think the authors have any insight in to what is going on here.

Some of us have an adipocentric view of obesity.

D12451 causes obesity because it generates pathological insulin sensitivity in adipocytes and simultaneously raises insulin. Adipocytes take in excess lipid which results in obesity combined with hunger. The calories which have been eaten are "gone" in to adipocytes. You have to eat more. To loosely quote Gary Taubes "getting fat makes you eat more".

Your hypothalamus notices, it's well aware of this caloric loss.

Eating a non obesogenic control diet does not affect hypothalmic remodelling. Eating that exact same diet at 70% of necessary calories makes you hungry and does reduce remodelling.

Eating D12451 at any calorie intake leaves you with inadequate calories. You're hungry. Remodelling shuts down. Just like you are being starved, but more so.

The relationship between bodyweight and hypothalamic remodelling is a curve because hunger is a curve. Low bodyweight hunger through frank calorie restriction "feels" the same (at least to your hypothalamus) as having a high bodyweight due to excess caloric loss in to adipocytes.

Gaining weight is a CNS hypocaloric phenomenon due to failure of adipocytes to limit caloric ingress.

Think ROS.

Please don't try to drug your hypothalamus out of obesity. It will end in tears.

Peter

EDIT: TLDR decreased hypothalamic remodelling under hypocaloric conditions "locks" signalling in the "seek calories" mode. END EDIT.

16 comments:

Justin said...

Good stuff Peter as always. After 13+ years, you are pretty much the only person I follow these days.

Peter said...

Thanks Justin

Peter

Itu Chaudhuri said...
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Itu Chaudhuri said...
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Itu Chaudhuri said...
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LeenaS said...

Hi Peter.
Thank you for this paper.
However, if I read the article right, the standard AL chow (for the referece mice that did not gain weight) was not the sucrose rich D12450B (this is the chow for the HCD arm) but a nearly sucrose free special died CRM 801722

Cheers,
LeenaS

Itu Chaudhuri said...

Hi, Peter Leena S
Found the labels in the online version. Will look

Peter said...

Hi LeenaS, Tucker and I have been discussing this back and forth by email. The 801722 chow was used for two things only: growth from 4 to 6 weeks (at which point all mice were changed to either HFD D12451 for interventions or the HCD D12451B "control" diet for controls. This was also used to ad-lib slim down one of the HFD fed groups.

"Mice were obtained from the Charles River Laboratories at 4 weeks of age and fed and chow (SDS Nutrition) from 4 to 6 weeks of age ad-lib. At 6 weeks of age DIO mice were fed HFD to induce obesity, while LEAN CONTROL MICE were fed HCD [D12451B] diet."

So "Control AL" column is always D12451B throughout, "control CR" is HCD D12451B at 30% calorie restriction and "HCD AL" is mice which were fattened with HFD D12451 for 4 weeks then spontaneously weight reduced with ad-lib D12451B. The "HCD CR" group were fattened with HFD D12451 then slimmed down by enforced calories restriction using 30% below the Control AL mouse spontaneous intake of HCD.

The other time chow 801722 was used was for re-feeding after caloric restriction, but that's another section of the study completely (which gave the incorrect title of the paper, look at week six, p greater than 0.05).

I have to say that this is one of the worst written methods section I've ever read. All of the information is there but it's as clear as mud without five or six careful readings and cross-correlation to bits of the results/discussion section.


Itu, did you find your way to the diets? D12451 and D12451B are, like F3666, completely standard, off-the-shelf commercial diets made by several companies. Just duckduck the number to get to a formulas.

Peter

Peter said...

Oops, that will be formulae...

P

Itu Chaudhuri said...

Yes all good found the pointers in the online version and so on. Thanks for your tolerance.

LeenaS said...

Hi Peter, you are right, thanks.
I read the experimental section all too hastily, sorry.

Peter said...

LeenaS, I think authors get to know their studies inside out and their methods section probably seems perfectly okay to themselves. In such a complex study it behoves the authors to make the protocols crystal clear. IMVHO.

Itu, it's actually quite hard to find the exact formula for D12451B. Possibly going out of fashion. After all, we shouldn't find a high sucrose diet sliming! But it is..... Ah fructose, very complex.

Peter

Itu Chaudhuri said...

Peter, yes, but just to approximate, soy is 68% pufa (incl LNA) and lard 12% (higher according to Brad Marshall) and these are sole constituents. Even without ratios the LA will be safely in the bad range with sucrose lurking about.

Yes i learnt here (and tucker? reading becomes a blur on t'internet:) that fructose's slimming effect comes at the cost of fat in the liver if I have that right...

Peter said...

Itu, sadly, life is not that simple. I don't know about fructose.

Peter

tzo said...

To expand on the subject a bit...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2648854/

Peter said...

Ah, leptin. Where does leptin act to control obesity? Sadly, the neuropharmacologists will never get anywhere https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12925533/

Peter